I really just want to know why? In all of God’s green earth why did GW America create such a poor excuse for a 40k competitive tourney in Ard’ Boyz. GW America seemed to decide that 40k Xtreme would have been too obvious a name, so instead we are left drinking at the trough of this sad exercise. A rant about the event itself would be too easy, however Ard’ Boyz has created two very powerful unforeseen consequences.
- Tournaments are moving closer and closer and 2500 Army List model.
- The dumbing down of list building.
Think back three years ago, you had GW GT circuit running at 1750. Exactly how many 2000 point tourneys could you find at the time? Then bam! Ard’ Boyz comes along and competitive players are suddenly faced with building 2500 lists, a mostly unheard point cost at the time. Double that with the release of Apocalypse and you have the makings of giant point increase in army lists building. Competitive players end up buying the models necessary to building lists at this new level and slowly many American players gravitate to these higher point games.
Today we see 2000 point tourneys pushing out the other lower events. How long will it take before 2500 is the new standard? Sure many of you love the 2000+ point game. At Blood of Kittens we think you should understand just how dangerous your love is. 2000-2500 point games are becoming the standard point level for 40k in America. When most of the world still plays in the 1500-1750 range for most tournaments and average play, it is us Americans that are the anomaly. The 2000+ game shouldn’t be the standard. Blood of Kittens will have a detailed article very soon demonstrating all the reasons 2000-2500 is the ass backwards way to play 40k. For now I am going to leave that kettle percolating.
The second consequence of Ard’ Boyz is list building. If you head over to Yes the Truth Hurts you will notice Stelek and friends vomiting Ard’ Boyz lists at an epic rate. These represent typical Ard’ Boyz lists you can find on any number of forums around the Net. For the most part they are a clear representation of what has become the gross trend in army building. Their concept is implicit and simple. Create lists that use weight of dice plus cost effectiveness to determine victory. This is only amplified if you have enough points to build such an army. Suddenly math does matter as you start to reach the averages necessary for your little mathhammer brain to salivate. No longer are you sweating over your one Hydra surviving, at Ard’ Boyz you now have nine.
These lists are boring and lack any nuance. Originality loses meaning and it becomes only about the list. It would almost be better for Stelek and others to just list the units for each codex that have the “best” dice/cost ratio and let the players just pick and choose from a menu. This is not to say that player ability cannot still determine victory, it just means when you see one of these lists you have seen them all. Every unit is independent from the rest and have no real synergy. You might think you are cool for “discovering” just how cheap and shooty a unit is, but in all honesty you just helped dumb down 40k. It also gives comfort to the chorus of haters when they drown out anyone else for posting lists that don’t fit this new orthodoxy. The bar has so shifted that even Goatboy’s army lists look somewhat fluffy.
What about the poor sod that trots out his Ard’ Boyz list at lower points and wonders why he got face stomped? Quickly he will return to the safety of higher point games hoping for better results, not realizing point and click is much harder to pull off at 1500. So we end up creating a group of players that only see 40k through Ard’ Boyz covered eyes. The list and not skill as a player becomes the new paradigm. To the point where Internet flame wars start when words like Eldar and foot slogging are mentioned in the same sentence. The American 40k player is slowly losing the ability to see what one unit can do for another. Instead players go through the unit check list and make sure they have checked off the right boxes.
So on July 17th do yourself a favor and don’t contribute to the dumbing down of 40k America.
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I do enjoy 1750, I just think 1500 is the best. Thanks for you opinion!
Um not sure I get what you are saying, clarify more if you want.
A ten man is 170 points which if you double your notion of 90 point five means that Space Marines now are 10pts cheaper and you don't have to pay for grenades or flamer or missile launcher?
If want to the make the argument that GW is just out to sell models then yeah that is what they are trying to do, but they are doing it buy lower costs for most units in all codices. Which means that any point level no matter how high or low equals more models for them.
Trust me I am all for more models.
Agree and agree some more.
Well said MVB only disagree with one part, but good perspective.
Don I wonder if your kind still live! hehe Anyway way to go on liking the really skirmish level for 40k.
Haha thanks Brent! See you Adepticon too if you are going!
re·tard? ?[ri-tahrd, for 1–3, 5; ree-tahrd for 4] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1.
to make slow; delay the development or progress of (an action, process, etc.); hinder or impede.
To presume the disparaging meaning implies more about your association with the word vis-a-vis the mentally and/or physically disabled.
There is clearly no intent to mock the disabled, merely to mock the “delayed” “hindered” and “impeded” development of competitive 40k play and players in the Americas.
I really wish I was going, but school was too much this semester. I'm not missing another year though.
That said, I've already bought my BoLSCon tickets, and I've even convinced Fritz to take me on as his partner for the Friday event. I'm already painting up little Jawaballs and Black Matt casualty markers…
Interesting article – never been into 'ard boyz much – but more because of the lack of the total hobby experience than the points levels.
I think that the game is different at 1500, 2000, and 2500 + all points in between. Different armies scale differently. An army that is one dimensional at 1.5K suddenly becomes much better at 2.5K (ala necrons, Eldar) because you can add the components at the higher point costs to balance the list that are missing at the lower costs. Other armies that are great at lower costs (Wolves, Marines, demons) lose out when armies can be scaled to handle a little of everything. MY humble opinion – sure it's not shared by all.
I think it would be cool to have a tournament where you had to run all three points levels to win – same army in all games. Maybe have 1500, 1850, 2000, 2250, 2500 point rounds. Would be an interesting challenge.
At the end of the day though – all point levels can be fun – and bring a different element to the tourneys.
Variety is the spice of life right?
Me and my friend were talking last night about GW should run at Las Vegas an escalation 5 game tourney start 1250-2500 that would really test players abilities.
As an observer, there is a lot I enjoy about the 'Ard Boyz idea. I have watched the first and second round of play at a local store for the past few years. Listening, reading, and watching as people gear up for the intense battles is exciting. The armies are in fact really crazy. What many people seem to overlook is that they will face equally crazy armies. So while everyone went there thinking that they had everything their force needed and more, many of the battles end up being quite desperate struggles. The real bummer is that finding results after a given round is next to impossible, because it seems those with the biggest mouth never do as well as they suggested they would (their awesome army drew or only got minor victories every round?)
I think what you have interestingly revealed with this post (and subsequent comments and responses) is that many people tend to get stuck in a particular rut as far as points values. I'd wager many players can generate a decent army at their preferred point value in their head, but could take hours to create one at a different value.
The game really changes as point values change. Even the difference between 1850 and 1750 requires a big change in thought, and difficult changes to armies (drop a marine from each squad? drop extra armor? drop the grenades upgrade?). I probably play the most number of games at 1100, which is a strange-ass number. (I play a lot of quick games with a close friend on a 4×4 table he created. While remaining small, that extra 100 points adds a lot of power over the 1000 point list).
Honestly, 2500 points is outside my experience and understanding of the game, so I appreciate the opportunity to experience it (if indirectly) twice a year.
going have to put some negative points on you guys for that team up.. Fritz and you… poor guys.
This dude is a retard.
The escalation tournament I went to was the most interesting tourney I've attended. Start low, increase points as games progress, successive lists have to include everything in prior ones. Made for interesting choices as you had to keep the army viable at each level and couldn't count on super units or combos nearly as much.
I think saying X number of points is “best” is dangerous as it implies some sort of objective criteria for determining game quality – something that is inherently subjective to the people playing.
I think Fantasy moved to 2k due to a break line: at 2k, you get Lords, at less, you do not. Since 2000 is an even number (and since 2000 means people buy more models) it created an atmosphere that enabled a points increase. The jump to 2500 is part and parcel of the fact that 'Ard Boyz, like every GW promotion, is designed to get you to buy more models – in this case, targeting tournament players who had one or two of the big models and would now need more.
As for me, I run campaigns out of my house at 2000, but also making use of varying mission and game types (CoD, Planetstrike, with Battle Missions soon to be added!). I've never been a tournament player but I don't begrudge anyone their own standard of what makes a fun game.
The fundamental issue of this line of debate is not what is the “best” points level for playing a game of 40k, the issue is what is the “best” points total for COMPETITIVE 40k (ie. tournaments etc) to be played it.
I completely agree that 40k is a subjective experience and the game is best in all different manners for different situations. Many people avoid competitive play because of this issue and prefer to just play the “best” game they can without worrying about the nature, spirit or actuality of competitive game play…
The fundamental issue of this line of debate is not what is the “best” points level for playing a game of 40k, the issue is what is the “best” points total for COMPETITIVE 40k (ie. tournaments etc) to be played it.
I completely agree that 40k is a subjective experience and the game is best in all different manners for different situations. Many people avoid competitive play because of this issue and prefer to just play the “best” game they can without worrying about the nature, spirit or actuality of competitive game play…
I have to disagree with the dumbing down of 40k is because of ard boyz, its because of the current line of thinking to cater to the Kids.
I've only just discovered your blog and I'd just like to say how nice it is to have a breath of fresh air, where someone else appriciated that “big = best” is not a mentality that applies to points values.
Not least when the americans cram 2500 point armies into deployment zones designed for 1500 point armies and then whine that IG turn up with artillery and splatter it all flat in the first couple of turns…. its their own fault that their games are unbalanced.
And then you get Stelek's crowd squeaking that blocking is the only viable tactic to use…well I'm sure it is when you've not no room to manoeuvre any units in directions other than 'forward.'
What concerns me is that in the UK many tournaments are creeping up to 1750 points, while my club will continue to run it's event at the 'gold standard' I get the impression its starting to become a minority…
In summary, well said – Hymirl.
Thanks for the kind words. Please spread the word and comment anytime!
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