Mar 16, 2011
Most of y’all know me as an Ork player. That’s probably good, ’cause Orks are certainly the 40k army I’ve had the most success with. However, I also own Eldar. I’ve played and loved Eldar since 2nd edition and they are some of my favorite models out there.
I love their background as race brought low by hubris. A race with unimaginable power that became just a small spark in the galaxy.
I’ll tell you what I hate though, the Eldar dex as it stands now. Blech! I’m not going to argue the merits of the list in terms of competitive level (I think mechdar is still effective, some think footdar can be…yadda yadda), but I think we can all agree that there are certain all-stars and some real duds. But I think the biggest issue is that the list doesn’t really do a good job of showing the Eldar units to be truly elite. Nor does it really make any of their “advanced” weaponry sound even remotely appealing.
As a mental exercise I started working on re-writing the ‘dex and coming up wtih better rules to really make some of these units more interesting and more competitive.
I really tried to make the units be GOOD, but not too good, and also make sure that even though they still have relatively cruddy stats, make sure they don’t become a horde army.
Some of the rules I came up with now look silly in comparison to some other rules that have come out since I started this (like GK’s teleporting vs my Warp Spiders…), but I think they still hold up.
What I’d love is to have some discussion on this dex and see what people think of the various rules and the points levels I assigned to them. This was done almost 100% by me with exactly 0 game testing, so I’m sure there’s some loop hole or broken unit I missed. Would love to hear some opinions.
The other reason I worked on this was because I really like what The Codex Project is doing and wanted to try my hand at this before delving into a completely new race with no existing rules.
Well, anyway, please read and enjoy!
pathtyphon
TastyTaste
Frank Austin
fluger
Brent
Dethtron
newsun
AbusePuppy
nyhil
That Teri Girl
reecerobbins
badtaste
Perhaps to be true to their fluff, Eldar need to be converted into a specialist army. Beef everything up, raise the points, lowering the number of models that will be fielded.. they become the small elite strike force like Grey Knights.
Legendary!
It’ll be interesting to see people’s views on this thing…
I like most of it.
Hmm, it’s got some problems. Here’s some standouts.
Why the Shuriken Catapult change? According to my Mathhammer you’ll end up killing just about the same MEQ. If they’re in cover it’s almost the same.
Assuming BS 3 S4 with 40 shots, 20 hit, 10 wound with 3.3 dead Marines.
Assuming BS 3 with S3 rending and 60 shots, 30 hit, 10 wound, about 1.5 of those are rending, leaving 2.8 non-rending dead Marines. Add ‘em together and you get 4.3 dead Marines. If they’re in cover that’s reduced to 3.55 marines. It’s not much of an improvement, though the rending will ignore FNP.
Wraithguard’s biggest problem right now is their expense and their very short range. While you improved them, their short range is still a big problem.
Your Phoenix Lords are certainly improved, but I would like to see them unlock at least one unit of their aspect as Troops. Jain Zar needs to force rerolls of inv saves.
I’d like for guardian heavy weapons platforms to be able to shoot at a separate target like artillery crew members can. Seriously, why are only arty crew members able to shoot at a separate target?
Shining Spears still suffer from their main problem that they’re still really expensive and when they wipe out the unit they charge, they get completely shot up, or get hacked to pieces if they don’t break them on the charge. They need a way to deal with that, perhaps a larger consolidation move.
I like your Swooping Hawks.
Warp Spiders should use the flame template like they used to (it used to be the heavy flamer template actually), but I like how they function in the same manner as a Night Spinner.
It’s a good start and there’s ideas in there worth keeping. Eldar probably won’t be updated for ages so we might as well keep wishlisting.
The change on shuriken weaponry was more a style choice. S3 rending seems more in line with how the weapon is described. It also seperates it from the shoota. Note I upped the range which is a huge consideration. Rending also gives them a decent shot at taking out light tanks.
Wraithguard are really good though if you get a bonesinger, giving them FnP. Factor in that you can fortune them and stick ‘em in cover and that they are immune to poison and are now scoring…uhhhh, they seem like a value as an objective holder that you have to go dislodge.
Good idea on Jain Zair! Though, I avoided a lot of rules like that since doom works like that now.
Meh, not sold on this that much, its kind of how 40k works.
I think I made the shining spears more potent on their charge with the potential of a first turn strike that should wipe out most normal sized MEq squads of similar point value. The lack of grenades I considered a balancing factor.
The flame template is on the one Exarch weapon.
Thank you SOOO much for your input. Keep it coming! Also, I’d love to see some people write up lists with this codex and see what they would look like.
The concept of a “dying race” running up close with the equivalent of shotguns never made any sense. I remember guardians in the old days with following fire shuriken catapults, those were truly scary. I like the change you made Fluger.
So awesome! What a great idea! I’m reading it now and will comment when I’m done.
Cool, I’m glad this is exciting for you!
Couple Typos/Errors so far:
Dying Race: All non-vehicle Eldar units should have this rule. Also, the effect for being under half strength should last until the end of the game.
Guardian LD should be 8
Yriel: Spear of twilight should be double 1s cause wound.
I’ll get on it.
I would like to see phoenix lords act the same way as Marine HQs by unlocking aspect warriors as troops.
More psychic powers for Eldar with the ability to cast 2-3 powers a turn. Make eldar truly THE psyker race.
Waveserpents go down in points and perhaps an option to have rending on witchblades since Eldar deathstars are currently the weakest since too many armies out there now have FNP.
Honestly, there are a ton of options to have different types of troops in this dex as constructed. I think going any further would be too much of a good thing.
10 powers for the Farseer, 4 for the Warlocks. Farseer can do 2 a turn; Eldrad can do 3.
Waveserpents cheaper? Not sure on that, they have front armor 14 at range; and you can assault from them now…
Notice that witchblades are now power weapons that wound on 2s.
I missed the witchblades >_<.
Ok, here goes, more or less “in order”:
The Scorpion’s Shadowstrike – while this is neat as you’ve written it, I think it’d be more characterful and useful if you changed it to some sort of “emerge from a piece of terrain” power, like in the apoc datasheet for karandas or like the tyranid sneaky monsters can do.
Did you mean to make Scorpions Fleet despite the fact that you’ve kept them with a 3+ save?
Did you mean to lower the strength of the Fire Dragon meltagun? In the current dex it’s 8, you’ve got it at 7.
Is it me, or did (compared to the upgrade to the other aspect warriors) Dark Reapers get REAL good? You upped their points cost, so it’s fair, but they’re much more ‘elite’ than the other Aspect Warriors.
I really like the way you upgraded Swooping Hawks, it’s very characterful! I’d comment that the way you have Hawk’s Soar working is a bit odd – in the current codex, the unit DOES NOT have Hit and Run but CAN use Skyleap to leave combat. In yours, they could use Hit and Run to get out of combat, but (if they did it at the end of the assualt phase in the Eldar turn) they’d be sitting ducks in the opponent’s turn. Much better to keep the ability to Skyleap/Hawk’s Soar out of combat, escaping from the table during the dangerous opponent’s turn (perhaps remove Hit and Run as compensation). I like the idea that the only way they can escape from assault is to fly straight up!
On Rangers/Pathfinders: Did you deliberately replace the “Camo Cloaks” with the ability to go to ground and still shoot? Because that’s worse (you wouldn’t be able to move the next turn, even if you can still shoot – as opposed to just always getting a one better cover save).
Also, I feel that Rangers and Pathfinders, the way you’ve written them, are mismatched. Rangers are “enh” and Pathfinders are a mindblowingly good killer unit (they get a ballistic skill, ignore cover, relentless, the assault protection, better wounding, AP2, glancing vehicles, AND their shots ignore cover saves. that’s all in comparison to rangers. They should be a cut above, but not THAT big a cut. Maybe giving one or two of those rules to rangers as well, to make it more consistent?) On the other hand, I feel that you’ve point-costed them correctly in comparison to each other. So this isn’t a strong criticism, more of an awareness that now they are very different units, as opposed to Pathfinders being an ‘upgrade’ to Rangers.
Bonesingers – SO COOL. And in response to the Wraithguard comments, I run a 10-strong unit of Wraithguard in my current list, and it’s good as is. With a Bonesinger and the upgrades Fluger has given them, they are a SERIOUSLY prime unit. So in my book, no ajustment needed!
When you write that the Spirit Stones ‘cannot be combined’ w the Crystal Targeting Matrix, did you mean they can’t both be purchased for the same vehicle? Or that when you’re at BS, you can’t ‘activate’ your CTM and then be at BS2?
My army is based on Wraithguard and Wraithlords, so I salivate at your upgraded versions of them
I agree that’s exactly the help they needed! A few things: did you mean to make the Wraithlord Fleet?
I like the way you’ve written Eldrad, he feels consistent now, as the mega-psyker, leaving the more “tactical” powers to the Autarchs. But…a 2+ invul on a three wound model? Really? It’d be the only one in the 40k Universe. I mean, I run him, I love the super-power action, but…it seems a bit much, especially given he’ll often be Fortuned. Maybe a 2+/3++? And then reduce the points? 330 just seems way out of line. Maybe that’s a typo and you mean 230? (230 seems about right to me)
Do Warlocks have 2 attacks base? Or have you included the Extra CCW attack in their profile? Also, the way you’ve upgraded Witchblades, and (maybe) given Warlocks an extra attack, you’ve made them one of the best close combat units in the game.
On points costs: I don’t feel you needed to raise the points costs of Scorpions, Fire Dragons, and Banshees – or at least not by that much. I think your upgrades just brought them up to current codex par, without any price increases.
I think your Guardians are still too expensive. Compare to Dark Eldar Kabalite Warriors – which are 9 points and have BS4 as a base, plus other better stats too. Your Vet Guardians are 11 points with BS 4…and though I do like that you cheapened the heavy weapon, a Dark Eldar squad can take two, I believe. Also on that front, why is a Warlock 25 points on his own, but 50 when he’s joining a Guardian squad? [Ditto for Warlocks joining Guardian Jetbike squads] Finally, I don’t quite get the Artillery Battery addition. So for each squad of Guardians you can purchase a Battery, which is separate from the Heavy Weapons Team that’s actually in the unit? So the advantage is just that you can get it as troops rather than taking up a Heavy Support slot?
I love Dire Avengers and they seem pointed out perfectly. “Fall Back” is a super characterful and great power, forcing your opponent to make tough choices! Can I suggest a different name, maybe “Fade Back” or “Fluid Escape” or “Graceful Retreat” or something, to avoid confusion with the basic rule?
Also, I love that you can put the Pheonix Lords in there *instead* of Exarchs, that’s a good structural idea.
Holofields – I love that you made them better, but I feel you’ve made them a bit too good. Perhaps on a 3+?
Warp Spiders: I feel you didn’t need to raise their points cost. I run them in the current codex, and at 22 points a large unit is around 250 points, which is alot for a bunch of T3 models that suck in Assault. You upgraded them slightly, but only slightly (their gun is interesting but not that much better than two strength 6 shots) so really you just brought them “up to par”. I feel they could stay 22 points, especially considering comparing their move to the GK Telepoint Shunt, as you mentioned.
I agree with the other commenter about Shining Spears.
I like the way you increased the unit size for Vypers and cheapened them, so a fleet of 5 with CT Matrices comes out around 250, for a cluster of fast heavy weapons that sounds fair.
Interesting the way you made War Walkers simultaneously better and worse (open topped is a huge downgrade, but the Defense Fields as written are a huge upgrade). I like it, makes them harder to play but potentially better.
I don’t think the tanks needed to get that much more expensive. The Wave Serpent looks right, still. And you did make the tanks faster with your Eldar Skimmer rule. But maybe 130 base (110 for the Night Spinner)?
You’ve made Wraithlords VERY expensive. You also upgraded them significantly with Wraithbone, Fleet, Eternal Warrior, and Noble Fury – and with a Bonesinger they’re FNP which is awesome….but they’re still a three wound model with no invul save. 210 points for a BL/Flamers/Wraithsword one (how I run them) seems a tad steep given that I currently buy that for 140 points. Maybe change it to 150 or 160 base instead of 170?
Ohmigod this whole project is so cool. Thank you so much for doing this, let me know what you think about my comments!
Ok, here goes, more or less “in order”:
The Scorpion’s Shadowstrike: Nah, I like it how it is. More like wolf scouts and snikrot.
Scorpions Fleet: Yes. This is so that if you infiltrate them, then scout move them, they can get a first turn assault on anything. Also, Incubi are 3+ armor and fleet.
Fire Dragon meltagun: Yes. I wanted to differentiate it with the meltagun. Note that they automatically have tank hunters, so the effect is identical against vehicles, they are just not going to insta-pop T4 multi-wound creatures. I’m fine with that.
Dark Reapers: Absolutely. They are wrecking crews with their shooting abilities. BUt, they are primarily anti-infantry focused, so they aren’t unbalanced IMO.
Swooping Hawks: Don’t forget that if you take the appropriate Exarch power, they are only hit on 6s in combat. They are relatively safe there.
On Rangers/Pathfinders: They have stealth automatically, so if they aren’t planning on moving, they can just go to ground for the 2+ cover like before.
Rangers and Pathfinders: Rangers are also troops. Rangers are fairly cheap, and you can also use them to make a turn one assault with haywire grenades to shut down enemy mech.
Bonesingers: Agreed.
Spirit Stones: What I meant was that if they are firing at BS2, it isn’t upped by the CTM. You can have both on the same vehicle.
Wraithlord Fleet? Yes! They went up in price, but got a lot of buffs.
Eldrad: 330 is right considering how tough he will be to kill. IN addition, a full kitted out Farseer clocks in at 250. You have to decide if the 80 more points is worth it for him. I want there to be a real choice between a base farseer and the uber-farseer. Note he is now only T3.
Warlocks: Warlocks have 1 base attack, but a witchblade and shuriken pistol, so 2 base then. 3 on the charge. Good, but not overwhelming.
On points costs: We can agree to disagree, but TBH, any of those units is now super deadly to a wide variety of stuff, and with just a little synergy from either an Autarch or a Farseer, they become ultra-deadly. I think the point increases are fair.
Guardians: Guardians now have a better weapon at a lower BS, they have access to a wide variety of USRs that can help them out. If you join an Autarch to them, they are lethal (re-roll hits in melee and in shooting). They’re gun platforms MOVE and Fire. Honestly, the guns might be too cheap.
Artillery Battery: Think of it like getting a dedicated transport. Its from the same slot, but a seperate unit. In this case you’re getting a artillery battery. The idea is to free up HS slots.
Dire Avengers: I like fluid escape.
Pheonix Lords: Thanks
Holofields: Honestly, this is a downgrade in a LOT of senses. AP1 weapons will still slag ‘em on 6s if its a glance.
Warp Spiders: Well, I did this pre-shunt. And, TBH, I think they make sense where they are at, point wise. They offer one of the best anti-horde options the Eldar get in the codex, and so have high utility there. They can leave combat easily, so sucking in combat isn’t a huge concern.
Vypers: They also have holofields automatically to up their survivability.
War Walkers: Total throwback to 2nd edition.
tanks: I’m really surprised everyone thinks the tanks are too expensive. A falcon has a great gun and another functional one. Can move faster than most vehicles, and guys can assault out of it after it moves. Seems fine to me.
Wraithlords: Hmmm, I could see maybe 160 pts, but they are extremely rugged as they stand now to MOST things. T8 is really good.
Ohmigod this whole project is so cool: I’m glad you like it. I’m having fun!
Traditionally, the bonus for 2 CCWs is NOT included in units’ profiles. This is going to confuse a LOT of people.
Some of these mods I have been currently playing with for a while now and work very well . And more to the point fit in with the idea of what eldar are . I personally had the solitaire as more of a possessed Damon style character with enemy only being able to do 1 hit each against him rather than the re rolls. I look forward to trying out some of these ideas .
Cool! I’m glad I’m not the only one tampering with codexes!
@Fluger
Nice codex, it reads like every person’s wet dream for eldar. I think giving the ability to reroll coversaves would be really nice for Dark Reaper Exarchs.
So you love all Xenos? You dont mind making a Tau dream codex?
I don’t know enough about Tau to do a ‘dex for them. But I’ll let you in on a secret. The real codex I want to work on is the demiurg/squat codex.
Dont say squats otherwise Jervis takes you off to re-education.
lol
I’m not an Eldar player (Chaos) but I really like the effort that went into this. Couple things that stuck out to me in terms of balance however. I thought that the whole “Pathfinders ignore cover and can go to ground and still fire” was a bit much.
Also the fact that the Wraithlord has a chance to ignore melta weapons and that both he and the Avatar were immune to poison was over the top for me. I realize the poison thing is more “fluffy” but its one of the few ways those guys can actually be harmed. Oh and I also think WS 10 needs to drop. I realize he’s a God of war and all but my Daemon Princes have also been a while and theyre WS7 (and NOT immune to poison attacks)
I’ve been swayed that the immunity to poisons is a bit much. I think I’ll change it to only wounded on a 6.
Pathfinders: They already had a 2+ cover save without going to ground in the current book. My change actually makes you have to pick whether to hide or whether you can move. Obviously, ignoring cover on the shot is pretty strong, no doubt, but they are still 30 pt models that can only kill a guy at a time.
Dire Avengers are probably too good. A Guided unit of DA with Doom support that Bladestorm then charge will probably wipe a 10 man Marine squad most of the time, and as cool as that is it is too good. Also, Fire Dragons should just be Melta or Heavy Flamer, none of this half-ass stuff with str 3. Yes, give them str 8 melta back, I don’t care if they insta-kill your Nobs. Also, Eldar don’t “do” str 7.
Striking Scorpions are perfect.
Dark Reapers are a little WTF, some of the gear is worthless while some of it is lol awesome. So far it looks as if foot Marines would get rocked by Footdar so you know GW will never do anything like what Fluger is writing lol. Warp Spiders would be fine if the weapon was a template. Shining Spears are still very meh, you’re telling me the LASER LANCE doesn’t have the “lance” USR? Really? I still don’t think these guys are worth taking.
Make the Ranger guns assault 1. Get rid of the stupid dangerous/difficult terrain assault rules. Make the Pathfinder gun heavy
DEAR SWEET JESUS WITCHBLADES ARE POWER WEAPONS PRAISE BABY JESUS
Guardian Jetbikes can’t take Shuriken Cannons now why? LOL @ Pulse Laser stats, too good. The Vehicle upgrades range from terrible to Crystal Targeting Matrix (the only good one). Artillery rules are perfect. Remove the Wraithbone anti-melta thing. Wraithlords still die to 3 Lascannons (probably, even with the funky rule) and are thus still very eh. Some of the Farseer powers are VERY unbalanced. For example, Mind War is WAY too good.
The Seer Council just went from being a very “meh” deathstar to being THE deathstar. I don’t think this is right personally, as much as it kills me Marines should have the “killly-ist” shit.
I cannot take a Farseer that stacks up to a common Space Marine Librarian without spending over double the points. This is BAD. You’re powers are too good and they cost way too much.
The more I look at points costs the harder I facepalm. 100 point Wave Serpents? 11 point Dire Avengers? WTfuck man? Cut this “3″ point and “11″ point shit out, you see any new books that try shit out like this in 40K (fantasy is rife with it and it makes my eyes bleed)?
Believe it or not, but you nerfed Holo-fields hard. I would not take them at all, or most of the vehicle upgrades. You also made Wave Serpents not nearly as survivable as they used to be, I’m not sure you realize how hard it is to be in rear/back arc of a Wave Serpent.
In conclusion, the Eldar need an overhaul that makes me say wtf, much like this one. This is a very decent attempt at redoing a codex that needs major revisions to be anything but the 1-2 build codex we have now, this just isn’t the way to do it. While a lot of the units are good, many of the upgrades are either too good or complete shit, like for example most vehicle upgrades are very overpriced AND terrible. Same goes for Farseer items etc. I give it a 7/10, good effort lol.
Dire Avengers: I’m actually starting to agree. Maybe make them 12 pts per again.
Fire Dragons: I wanted to give them duality, that was the main goal here.
Dark Reapers: What gear is worthless?
Shining Spears: Huh, you’re the first to say so as they now can have the blood talon style attack and a first turn charge. Most people were saying OTT!
Rangers: Ranger guns should stay heavy. Pathfinder gun should be heavy too, but they are relentless. Why get rid of the terrain thing? I think its interesting.
Guardian Jetbikes: They should… musta been a typo.
Pulse Laser: Funny, I hear others saying the Falcon isn’t worth taking.
Vehicle upgrades: You don’t think that the other ones are good? I’m curious as to your reasoning.
Wraithlords: lascannons only wound on a 3+, it takes more than 3.
Farseer powers: Why do you think Mind war is so unbalanced compared to say, Jaws?
The Seer Council: Maybe, but they have no way to kill vehicles anymore.
Farseer: really confusing sentence. If the powers are all too good, shouldn’t the high cost be representational of that?
points costs: What is making you face palm? Not having even numbers?
Holo-field: I’m well aware, current holofield rules are just obnoxious.
Wave Serpents: I’m well aware as well. Essentially, the wave serpent either speeds at the enemy with a 36″ flat out move to deposit guys or else hangs back and shoots and takes advantage of the AV14 front armor. Its a versatile vehicle that you can equip in a variety of ways to suit your army theme.
Thanks for this attempt. You have some really cool ideas in this. I like how you unlock the Wraithguard to make them troops. However, I think they should have at least two wounds. Other 35pt models (Ogryns, Grotesques) have multiple wounds. I also think you the point costs on Banshees and Fire Dragons should stay the same with the increase in ability. I know some people want “balance” in the next Eldar book. The Imperials get point breaks all over the place and I think Eldar should too. I want the next Eldar book to kick ass. (I know, I’m biased)
I love what you did with the Phoenix Lords, however they should unlock their aspects as troops, or at least make them scoring the way Kantor does for Sternguard. Finally, catapult should stay str 4 and be rending. With all the FNP out there, I want people to be afriad of my Guardians. Thanks again.
Note that if you take the Biel Tan SC autarch, all Aspect Warriors are troops.
Wraithguard with two wounds AND T6 AND 3+ armor? Seems like too much IMO.
Hey Fluger, thanks for the response, here I go with some more commentary:
Make DA 12 points again, give them rending only when they Bladestorm, make BS only give 1 extra shot. Give them Haywire Grenades, now they are worth taking and I would take 10 + an Exarch almost every time.
I understand you wanting to give FD duality, but that isn’t really something Eldar “do” in a traditional fashion. A Fire Dragon squad with all Heavy Flamers still has duality in the essence that they all have melta-bombs. Str 3 flamer is just….weaksauce lol, I would never take it.
The Shining Spears don’t have grenades and only get the bonus if they charge, plus only Marines and TMC really care about power weapon attacks from T3 dudes. If they fail H&R they are in deep shit. Also, str 6 (seriously give it Lance) is sort of eh.
I would say Rangers get assault and Pathfinders get heavy because it adds one more element to whether or not you should buy the Pathfinder upgrade. There has to be some pros and cons.
The Falcon isn’t worth taking because its 150 points and you nerfed the hell out of Holo-Fields. Honestly in your codex Eldar vehicles are, for the most part, not worth taking.
They are too many points on already extremely expensive vehicles that are easy for most good armies to deal with. One of Eldar’s main problems these days is that while the vehicles are survivable, they are very expensive and each loss hurts greatly. You just made this problem a lot worse.
Mind War is bad because it feels like a Space Marine power. Jaws is a Space Marine power for example (RAWR I KILL YOUR DUDES). Mind War the ability as-is should just be able to hit dudes in transports while allowing no cover saves, that change would make it more than worth taking.
I hadn’t noticed you removed the str 9 Witchblade ability. Hmm, now I would never take a Seer Council because all it is is a extremely expensive way to kill Marines with very little duality. Just give Witchblades rending or something, they don’t HAVE to be power weapons, especially with Doom working the way it does now.
Yes the powers should be expensive, but do you expect people to buy a T3 dude that costs as much as a Land Raider that can easily die in one shot if he fails his 50/50 invul save? 100 points for a dude with his statline is just too much dude, this is the points break thing darth papi spoke of. Also, nerf Eldard back down so I can actually take him in not-apocalypse.
How I would fix Farseers: 60 points base. Comes with RoWitnessing and Spirit Stones base. Powers cost mostly the same, RoWarding cost 20 points. Now his cost is sensible. Make Singing Spears a Witchblade power weapon that counts as two CC weapons (costs 10 points per dude).
Yes it is the uneven numbers. They are a nightmare when building lists, it is annoying to build a list then have like 4 points left over or be constantly 3 points over, something that all these points costs will do. It doesn’t have to be like the Nid codex where nearly everything is a multiple of 5, but you should be close.
Holo-Fields do nothing right now but make Falcons worth taking. Whaa-whaa they are hard to kill, I get this all the time from players who blow up all my other vehicles early game with missiles etc but can’t kill the Falcon that they think they should be able to in order to table me. Meltaguns already negate Holo-Fields enough anyway.
I don’t think Eldar should have 36″ movement readily available. I think Dark Eldar should of had it, as extreme speed is sort of their thing. A very easy fix for Wave Serpents would of been to suggest this:
70 points base. Assault ramps. Comes with Vectored Engines standard. Spirit Stones/Star Engines/Crystal Targeting Matrix 10 points each. Most weapons -5 points, TL Bright Lances should be 35 points.
This is something you overlook on Wraithlords too, they are twice as expensive base for no real gain in survivability. This makes them the Eldar Carnifex.
Again, this is a great piece of work in that I am happy you took the time to create this, I just don’t think this is the way things should be done (for the most part, like I said some things are perfect).
Make DA: Well, since basic shuriken cats also have rending, I thought an extra shot would be better there. I don’t really like the changes you proposed TBH. I think haywires should stay on guardians.
FD duality: The flamer is an optional way to fire the same weapon. You don’t have to choose it, you get both types of fire.
The Shining Spears: Doesn’t need lance as they should be going after light vehicles and infantry. With the blood talon rules, they can easily pop a unit they hit. No grenades was intentional to keep them balanced.
Pathfinders: Its not an upgrade like current codex, they are two seperate choices. Pathfinders are elite, rangers are troops.
The Falcon: But it has a MUCH better gun now, and can fire ALL guns when on the move 12″. It can also now turboboost 36″ and units being transported assault out of it like its open-topped. I think that deserves a bump in points, no?
Vehicle Upgrades: So, the spirit stones letting you ignore shaken and still shoot on stuns isn’t worth it? Nor is NOT being wrecked when moving flat out and getting immobilized? I’m not seeing it.
Mind War: so your complaint is emotional?
Seer Council: I like how they work. Deadly against infantry, but susceptible to walkers.
Farseers: Huh, well he should be in a unit, and since he can effect things anywhere with runes of witnessing, he should be out of harms way for the most part. Frankly, I want him to be fairly easy to kill. As to Eldrad. Yeah, the 2+ is too much. I’m making it 3+, but the points stay the same. Your fix is WAAAY too cheap.
uneven numbers: Don’t concern me as much as pricing appropriately.
Holo-Fields: Remember, I play Eldar too.
As it stands in the dex, if you take holofields and spirit stones; you are rarely getting stopped from shooting.
Wave Serpents: No, waaaay too cheap for what it can do.
Wraithlords: They have fleet, they got upped in WS and BS, and they can get up when they die. They are also immune to S4/3, unlike Carnifexes. Rockets wound them on 4s? Get a bonesinger nearby to make them even more rugged.
With regard to the Wraithguard; Grey Knight Paladins have 2 wounds, FNP, 2+/4+ or even 2++, force weapons, crazy psychic powers, and options that allow them to be int 6, and the abilty to pull off wound allocation shenanigans. All for about 20 pts more. Perhaps 35 is too cheap for two wounds, but I do think Wraithguard need a buff. I’m just tired of seeing Marine armies get all kinds of super units while at the same time being told that the nice things in the Eldar list are broken. For example, people say that Fire Dragons are too good. But how are the Eldar supposed to blow up tanks? BS 3 overpriced Brightlances are terrible. At this point I’d rather have a stright lascannon. I know that they want the Eldar weapons to be different, but we end up paying extra points for rules that don’t really help. I know that the Eldar units are supposed to work together, but it just doesn’t work that way. Thanks again for your efforts. I’m going to try and use this list next time I play.
I think 20 pts more is the key there. Also, they don’t have access to fortune, nor can they be in a unit of 10. I like wraithguard acting as a bunker for a farseer and a tough scoring unit.
As to Eldar anti-tank, that was something I gave serious consideration to. Notice that if you put an autarch in a unit of guardians, they re-roll shots. And they can also have tank hunters from the warlock. Definitely helped them out there.
Here’s some thoughts so far.
Army Special rules
Embers of Dominance: Uh… what? Why do they get 4 HQs? Why not just make each HQ better to the point where that’s unnessary?
Eldar Skimmer: Overly complex. Change to a varient of “Eldar skimmers count as moving one Speed slower for purposes of firing weapons. In addtion, transported unit may always disembark from a skimmer moving cruising speed or lower as if were stationary. When moving Flat Out, Eldar Skimmers may also move up to 36″.”
Not all of your Aspect Warriors have Dying Race. =(
Dire Avengers
Fall Back: This is actually a MUCH more complicated rule then first shown. Also, you shouldn’t call it ‘Fall Back’ if it doesn’t count as the fall back rule. *laugh*
Dark Reapers: The Exarch should be the one who fires seperately, not the whole squad.
Swooping Hawks:
Why did you change the name skyleap?
Shining Spears
Vicious Assault: Add “These attacks are resolved at I1.
Embers of Dominance: I did make them better, mostly I just want the flexibility.
Eldar Skimmer: Only issue with how you wrote it is that if the vehicle moved 12″, the passengers could disembark, then move 6″. Needed to avoid that.
Dying Race: That’s a typo!
Dire Avengers: Getting changed to -d6″ to enemy assault move.
Dark Reapers: Nah, I like how it is now.
Swooping Hawks: BECAUSE I COULD!
Shining Spears: No, that invalidates its whole purpose.
dude seriously that’s easily the worst fandex i’ve ever seen, instead of fucking with the special rules everywhere you should have fixed point costs and not broken everything.
if you think this is balanced i’d hate to see what you’d do for orks or daemons
Thanks for the constructive criticism!
Wow Fluger, I wrote a bunch of comments…but overall I seem to agree with the changes you made more than some other commenters do. It’s pretty funny that I thought you made Holo-fields too good and someone else thought you nerfed them. I have a feeling you’re getting a lot of that kind of contradictory critcism.
I think any codex like this would really just need to be playedtested a bunch… many rules, especially the ones which interact with each other…well, you just have to see how they actually pan out on the tabletop!
Anyway, I think you did a great job.
Yeah, a lot of differing opinions on things for sure. Fortunately, I’m getting a lot more feedback than I expected. I’d love to try and playtest this against other armies, but I think most people just avoid fandexes in general. With good sense. Like I mentioned in the introduction, this WASN’T play-tested, this is just ideas I had and point totals I thought appropriate. I’ve already gotten a lot of reasoned arguments about certain elements being either too good or too bad. I think its fun.
Wow Fluger, I wrote a bunch of comments…but overall I seem to agree with the changes you made more than some other commenters do. It’s pretty funny that I thought you made Holo-fields too good and someone else thought you nerfed them. I have a feeling you’re getting a lot of that kind of contradictory criticism.
I think any codex like this would really just need to be playtested a bunch… many rules, especially the ones which interact with each other…well, you just have to see how they actually pan out on the tabletop!
Anyway, I think you did a great job.
heres your constructive criticism, note the game isn’t played using movie marines, nor should eldar be wtfpwning things with 10 models
eldar units can assault after disembarking from transports that move 18 inches, bullshit
character turns area terrain into dangerous if not in their dz to enemy models only
eldrad’s invuln is 2++ come the fuck on, all infantry can deep strike for funsies, he also dicks over psychic hoods
maugen ra has assault 8 rending pinning and can shoot 3 targets bullshit
wraithguard get fnp woohoo
solitaires, if you fail a morale test to assault you fall back instead of stand around seriously wtf, they also cause ID with no saves of any kind allowed, it has ws 9 and successful hits must be rerolled
why are autarchs chaplains riddle me that
warlocks 25 points gets you 3 attack base 2+ poisoned power weapons that can gain scouts or counter attack etc…. bullshit
and all psychic tests at end of turn so reserving has no ramifications
farseer utter bullshit, divination should be for autarchs, mind war 3inch blast instant death, can turn infantry into beasts for a turn bullshit
the avatar gives furious charge +1 attack to everyone withint 12, and anyone in los gets reroll on morale
wraithlords are str 10 t 8 eternal warriors why exactly? it has fleet reroll to hits and meltas have to reroll successfull wounds bullshit
vibro cannons auto shake vehicles terrific , d cannons are ap 1 pen on 5/6, and everything in this codex has rending
new holofields turn penetrates into glances on 2+ bullshit especially on av 14 moving 18 inches and lighting my ass up but still going fast enough for a cover save wtf
war walkers get av 14…. seriously come the fuck on
why does the night spinner have ordnance its not designed to kill tanks.
fire prisms get str 9 ordnance combine for 10 ap 1, oh and 72 inch range is sooo necessary on a skimmer that can move 18 and fire
warlocks give out scout, tank hunter, counter attack, or stealth for shits n giggles, enhance gives the unit +1 ws Int/ Str, witchblades are now power weapons bullshit, conceal gives you night fight for being shot at
oh and they have haywire grenades base for some retarded reason
pathfinders hit on 2s wound on 3s all at ap2, can fire wile gone to ground, no cover saves allowed bullshit
shining spears gained scout and extra attacks per wound inflicted, come on now
warp spiders rending 5 inch blasts each, on deep strikes which they reroll they pin at -3 ld, oh and exarch gets instant death ranged weapon, any unit touched by templates are in dangerous terrain bullshit
swooping hawks only hit in cc on 6′s, turn into reaper bikes, and their basic rifle is assault 6
dark reapers can each fire at diff units, and at different times to wreck a vehicle then blast the occupants, reroll to wounds, oh and terminator armor, and give them anti-horde capability for shits and giggles
striking scorpions have str 5 all the time, scout and infiltrate and fleet bullshit… oh and rending to make it balanced
fire dragons get flamers for free, hit walkers on 4s with mbombs, and enemies hit reroll cover saves… bullshit
howling banshees that assault can’t be counter attacked…. what kind of bullshit is that seriously, furious charge free, 3d6 runs, and enemies ws 1…
20 pts gets a reroll wound power weapon, reroll enemy hits in cc and help vs blasts underpriced ridiculous
oh they can fire 5 shots per turn and have pinning too…..
rending 3 shot dire avengers op
dying race makes no sense they would fall back to fight again not die to last man…
movie marines: What about 5 death company with power weapons and a reclusiarch? They certainly chop stuff up, why not Eldar?
18 inches: I must not’ve made that clear enough, its supposed to just act like an open topped vehicle for purposes of disembarking and assaulting while also letting the vehicles move 12″ and fire all weapons.
dangerous: And?
eldrad’s invuln is 2++: This will be changed in some manner, I think perhaps going back to the 3++ or else making his 2++ not work in conjunction with fortune might work best.
deep strike: Plenty of units can’t deepstrike, in fact, most can’t…Confused on this comment.
psychic hoods: I’m assuming you’re referring to runes of witnessing and casting from a proxy essentially. I’m addressing that as well.
maugen ra: Technically its 9 shots (he gets fast shot), and its on a 200+ point model? Lots of 200 pt models do more damage at range.
wraithguard: Are you happy or sad here?
solitaires: He’s also not an IC and only has a 5++ save… Sure he’s tough to kill, but not impossible.
autarchs: Since it works on shooting as well, its better than a chaplain, but no fearless. I envision it as, for fluff reasons, he’s inspiring the unit he’s with and giving them insight, and for game reasons it makes him worth taking over a farseer.
warlocks: Yeah, the price there was too low, for sure.
psychic tests: Intentional, but also you can’t fortune something and then it turbo-boosts off. Forces your Farseer to be close to the action, or spend 50 pts to get Runes of Witnessing (which are being changed to a friendly model in LoS).
farseer: Lots here, divination, makes sense for some reading the future, right? Costs extra to get. Mind war I’m going to go back to, I don’t think it came out how I wanted. Beast style charge I thought was interesting, but you have to have built the units around it for it to be useful.
avatar: You weren’t clear on the issue here.
wraithlords: Everyone else seems to think they are overpriced…
Artillery units: I didn’t really change much here except extend range and fiddle with APs…
new holofields: Again, not moving 18″, as to Wave Serpents, they are under revision.
war walkers: Throwback to 2nd edition, and only at range, regardless, getting a revision.
night spinner: S6 on side armor is pretty effective against vehicles, but the biggest deal is the extra -1 to the pinning checks ordnance causes.
fire prisms: Again, can only move 12″ and fire. 72″ range is the same as a battle cannon, why do imperials only fire at long range? Fire prisms should kill tanks, why not give them rules so they can do it?
warlocks: The warlocks powers make guardians worth taking. Their psychic powers make them even better and worthwhile. As to Enhance, the +1 to S is being dropped.
haywire grenades: Actually, that was supposed to be plasma grenades.
pathfinders: For a model with T3 that nearly insta-dies when assaulted and is pricey. Maybe needs to be more pricey, but as they are now, they don’t do much damage.
shining spears: Going to switch them up a bit and lose scout but gain hit and run.
warp spiders: Changed to 18″ range and small blasts.
swooping hawks: assault 6 S3? NOt too exciting.
dark reapers: still only T3 and have to expose themselves to fire to do damage.
striking scorpions: Should be S4, not sure where you’re geting S5. Going to drop rending and points to 20.
fire dragons: For a price hike and also still just die after killing something.
howling banshees: Not WS1, WS-1. Frankly, for how easy they get gunned down, would make sense to make them good in combat.
20 pts gets: Shimmershield? Its 30 pts and is being changed to -1BS.
dire avengers: Getting bumped to 13 pts
dying race: The idea of this is that they wouldn’t commit to a fight unless it was urgent and necessary. Therefore they are driven in desperation to do what needs to be done to win out.
Frankly, those weren’t really constructive, but I like getting a sense of what people think of things in terms of power levels.
did you accidentally not put the price down for farseer abilities or are they free (i could be a noob and be missing something though)
The price is included in the farseer’s cost, just like all the newer psykers. You just pick 3.
Love it!
Thoughts:
-Dying Race seems like it’s just another excuse for making Morale irrelevant to the game, which is a bad thing. What is the rationale behind them being able to do this? “We’re scared of dying and running away, therefore we’re extra-brave?” I don’t get it.
-Psychic Mastery is a huge deal, but understandable considering they’re supposed to be the premiere psykers in the game.
-Embers of Dominance is poorly worded, but I guess workable. Again, though: why? Are the Eldar really that top-heavy of an organization? Why not just give them more HQ-style units in other slots?
-I really, really don’t like the way you’ve done the Eldar Skimmers rule; it’s only going to cause 100000000 problems. It practically contradicts itself in places (“may not move if it moved,” except it’s counted as one speed slower, right? So it can move, doesn’t count as moving, and thus the passengers can move, oops) and is generally inelegant as hell and feels like a “I wanted my Eldar to be more powerfuler” kind of thing. Sorry, but that’s how it comes off.
-Don’t Exarchs normally have an improved armor save compared to their underlings? Was this an intentional removal, or…?
-Having a rule called “Fall Back” that doesn’t count as falling back is probably needless confusing.
-Dire Avengers are pretty crazy-ridiculous. 11pts for BS4 five-shot guns with Rending? (Everyone will always buy Bladestorm for all time, I’m just sayin’.) There’s making a unit not suck, and then there’s putting fifteen wounds (including seven Rends) on things for 140pts. That really, really doesn’t seem fair.
-Why does the Diffused Fusion Gun shot get 2d6 penetration? If you’re trying to make the units specialists, giving them generalist options seems weird.
-Upgrades from wargear should be represented by parenthetical values in the statline, if at all. So Striking Scorpions are S3(4) and A1(2). This is especially relevant for the Exarch’s Power Fist, which is only S6, not S8 as most people would assume from looking at the statline.
-Sensor Vanes break basically every shooting rule in the game. Don’t do that.
-Swooping Hawks outshoot Sternguard (and virtually everything else) even in Rapid Fire range, are cheaper, are more mobile, come with more options, and just generally overcompensate for their previous suckiness.
-The Monofilament Net rule is bullshit. It was on the Night Spinner and it is on the Warp Spiders. Getting zero wounds on a unit from shooting and then killing ten of them when they move is not really very much fun. That’s more my personal opinion than an actual assessment, though.
-Warp Spiders are 26pts and every one of them gets a pinning, rending, large blast that also forces Difficult/Dangerous? And also they get to spread out after “deep striking” when no one else just because? And also they can teleport out of combat? Also also they have extra super better pinning? Okay yeah.
I don’t really think I need to read through and comment on the whole document at this point because basically this whole thing is coming off as one big wishlist. Everything is better, everything is super-awesome, longer range, higher damage, etc, etc. You could roll over… well, ANYTHING with this codex and there’s no way they could really stop you. Yeah, stuff is generally fairly expensive (except when it isn’t), but you keep all your defensive abilities from the old book (but ten times better) and lose basically nothing.
I agree with most of this. Just sayin.
With that out of the way: I personally like the Monofilament Net rule (at least on the Nightspinner). Now, I’m not sure putting it on a Jump Infantry unit is a good idea. I guess it depends on whether multiple instances of Monofilament Net stack or not.
Another stupid fan dex where everything is horribly good for horribly cheap. Tard.