Jun 22, 2011
I just got back from Las Vegas where I participated in the 2011 Throne of Skulls (ToS) tournament.
First, a little background. This was initially billed as a “tournament of champions!” event where only those players that had won a GT level event would be invited. Those who won were awarded a “golden ticket,” which much like Willy Wonka’s journey to the Chocolate Factory, would allow those of us who qualified to have a unique hobby experience.
I love all aspects of this hobby, from reading the BL novels, to painting, to modeling, to the social aspect of it and so on. But, my favorite part is competitive play. So, when I heard about an event that was drawing together only those players who had won an event, the competitive streak in my started to itch and was very happy when I earned my Golden Ticket.
When the rules packet for the ToS was eventually made public, I and a lot of guys initially felt let down. What we expected was a hard-core competitive event that would give us all a terrific challenge and bragging rights. What we got was an event that was openly downplaying the competitive aspect of the event in favor of a much more casual format. Now let me state right up-front: there is nothing wrong with casual events. I like offbeat or laid-back events where socializing is emphasized over competition, but the billing for the event had led us to believe that this was going to be more like Bloodsport than a hug-a-thon.
There was quite a backlash from the competitive community with a lot of nay-saying and generally not positive attitudes. This group included yours truly. The backlash was so strong that a LOT of Golden Ticket winners opted not to go, which meant that to fill tables, GW opened up the event to friends of Golden Ticket holders at the last-minute.
At the last-minute, I decided to go as a large group of my gaming buddies opted to make the trip. Now that I have gone, I can honestly say that my expectations of the event were way, way off the mark. I had a GREAT time and am nothing but thankful for the time, money and resources GW put into this event. Here’s why.
- The event was FREE! It cost NOTING to attend.
- The event was catered with fantastic food, three meals a day. I’m talking steak, salmon, steamed veggies, salads, beverages, pastas. It was the kind of spread you would see at a very upscale wedding and it was open to spouses of gamers as well.
- Two for one drinks at the bar at the event. Drinks in Vegas are expensive and this was a great gesture on GW’s part. Nearly everyone was drinking beers and cocktails, enjoying themselves while they played.
- Cheap accommodations. $75 for a room at the Tropicana.
- Great competition. Everyone there was a skilled player.
- The format was a nice change of pace. Since you were competing with only those players who brought the same army as you, a lot of guys brought “wacky” or less competitive lists. There were only 5 or 6 Space Wolf players, 4 crons, 4 sisters, 3 Tau, 8 Eldar and so on! Every army was represented which really is nice as the variety of armies is a big part of what makes this game cool.
- The atmosphere. This was honestly the most laid back, relaxed tournament I have been to. There were very, very few arguments that I saw or was made aware of.
- Beautiful terrain. Every board was a Realm of Battle game board. The terrain was painted very nicely if a little too sparse.
- It’s Vegas! A lot of guys went out in the evenings to drink, gamble, and generally engage in shenanigans. The social aspect of this event was very high, which I think is great. Tournament players from across the USA and Canada were all hanging out, talking nerd and having a great time.
As for the negatives, they were relatively few in my opinion. The scoring system was a bit weak. Favorite opponent votes counted for a HUGE part of your score and were easily abused. If friends played each other, they probably voted for each other. Also, your overall placement was based on how you did compared to other people with your army which takes a lot of control out of the individual players’ hands. How you ranked was largely dependent on how other guys with your army did, which is annoying. At a tournament, I want to have total control over my own destiny. I want to know what I have to do to win. Taking that control away from the players makes things too random and a tad frustrating.
Also, day 1 a lot of players had to play the same person twice in a row and in one case, all three games. That stinks and was a major mistake as it also meant that you could not get as many favorite opponent votes, which were a big part of the overall scores. No one wants to travel across the country, even to a free tournament, to play the same guy two or three times. The reason this happened is that the TO’s were using tie breaker points (victory points on the 40K side) during pairings for EACH round. Tie breaker points should only be used at the end of the tournament. So what happened was that anyone who tied a game ended up drawing the same guy again in the next round. Everyone complained about this so they dropped it from day 2, but it was lame and the only really big goof in my opinion.
Lastly, there was not enough terrain on the 40K tables. No one likes playing on planet bowling ball, and it gave a large advantage to shooting armies.
That aside, it was a great event and I had a blast. The event organizers worked their asses off to deliver a top quality event and in general, they succeeded marvelously. GW dropped some serious coin on this and I know I am thankful for the chance to have participated in this event, especially considering how hard GW tends to rear-end a lot of their customers.
I personally brought my infamous Footdar and managed to go 2-0-1 on the first day against Grey Knights, Mech Blood Angels and Dual Lash Chaos, but missed the second day of the event as I got distracted by some new friends I made Saturday night out on the strip.
If the event is in Vegas next year, you can count me in and I fully recommend others to give it a go! Two thumbs up to GW for such a generous and fun event.
pathtyphon
TastyTaste
Frank Austin
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Brent
Dethtron
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That Teri Girl
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badtaste
More necron rumors please!! lol jk(well kinda), Great post friend!
Wow this event really kind of came and went without much fanfare.
A great article Reece. I can see why/how most “competitive players” would be turned off by this event. A lot of what youg et out of it is what expectations you have going into an event like this.
It probably boils down to this not being the event that the competitive players really wanted to go to. Which is a problem since the “golden tickets” were given out to players who performed well at “competitive” events.
Unless I am incorrect, I believe they have opened up the next Throne of Skulls to purchased tickets as well.
How many people were in attendance? I’m curious to find out what the numbers were. Thanks for the write up Reece.
96 40k players.
Just wanted to let you know that the event will be in Memphis next year.
The event was good fun and I would go again. Memphis though? I will have to wait and see, that is a long trek from CA not nearly as cool as Vegas, although I imagine it is a lot cheaper.
@Carl
Yes, the event was not what we expected but it was cool none-the-less. With some minor tweaking, I think that tournament format could be a real winner for non-uber competitive formats as it encourages people to bring a wide variety of armies.
@Hulk
I don’t know how many guys were there total on the 40K side, but I think it was like 80 or so?
I’m going to have to disagree with you on the point being a real non-winner for those of us who are hobbyist gamers, Reece – it’s funny that coming from two opposite perspectives, we woudln’t choose it as a format for ourselves.
*winner – not non-winner. Whoops!
@Teri
Which point were you disagreeing with? I didn’t understand what you were indicating. I would think that this event was a lot of fun from a hobby perspective.
@Mannahnin
Good to see you again! I had a great time too, definitely glad I made the trip out.
Reece: I’ve got a whole post coming up on why I don’t think this type of format is really good for community-building/hobby-oriented events (having run a few myself). I’ll let the post come up and I’m sure we can debate it from both sides.
I’m really curious to hear why you would think this was not a good community building event as I felt it was great for that. Looking forward to your article.
It was really, really cool. The playing the same player twice thing was an absolute travesty, and the tables were a bit light. And I heard that the scenarios were pretty poor on the WHFB side. But overall the 40k side was pretty darn amazing and fun.
A good event…by all reports, yes…a tournament of champions…no. To say that GW had to fill tables AFTER some of the ‘winners’ decided not to go is not entirely true.
As a golden ticket winner (for WHFB over a year ago), I knew no less than 6 months prior the event that GW had decided to make numerous VIP tickets available, in particular any person who had run a golden ticket qualifing event along with other special guests, were also invited. These special guests, VIP’s and others would also be entitled to battle it out for the Throne of Skulls Championship even though they never qualified.
For all the reports of friends that attended, all of Reece’s comments regarding terrain, sportsmanship, organization and food were spot on! From people I have spoken to who attended both days, it was more of a PR event/Tournament for GW, than it was a ‘best of the best’ event for players who wanted to see who really was the best. But everyone commented on how fun it was, but commented it felt like a really cool, all expenses paid, RTT.
With that said, I hope now that it will continue with fewer (hopefully zero) VIP and special guests flooding into the playing field next year.
Honestly, do you honestly think that the attendance of VIP players really degraded the playing experience? That’s pretty harsh: I mean, if folks like me didn’t run events, there would be no qualifying for anyone.
Wouldn’t you rather have folks who enabled guys like you to qualify rather than people who just bought tickets to attend?
I wonder how many IG “winners” didn’t bother trying to overcome their newfound weakness to DS’ing armies…
Isn’t the guy who won best painted marines the same guy who got called out last year at Da Grand Waaagh for not painting his army and using a painting service for his Salamanders?
I don’t know about that, but I know that the guy who won best overall in Fantasy did so with an army bought from eBay painted by the guy who won 2nd best painted army in 40K.
:/
That’s weak. If your army was painted by someone else, you need to let that be known. I have no problem with people paying someone to paint their army, but it is incumbent upon you to tell the TO’s.
My friend (the guy who had painted and sold those beautiful Dwarves) mentioned it to the player who won with them, but he (for obvious reasons) wasn’t inclined to tell anyone.
It was pretty lame.
It sounds nuts to say, but maybe TOs need to start asking people if they painted their army. I think part of the problem with this form of cheating is most don’t feel it is. I’d imagine a lot of this won’t happen if people are asked point blank if they had someone else paint it.
To play devil’s advocate: why is this cheating? One player invested a lot of time and effort; the other invested a lot of money. Both of them have, by their dedication of resources, made this something they consider important. Why differentiate?
The award for best painted is meant to be rewarding someone for their skill in painting. I think if you pay someone to paint your army, you should be able to get full painting points, just not win best painted as you didn’t actually paint it. That award should go to someone at the event who actually painted their army, IMO.
I have paid people to finish painting my armies before as I sometimes just don’t have time to do it, so I understand that some people may not lack the desire, only the time to do it. But still, I feel that an award for performing a skill should go to the person who performed that skill.
Fair enough, but that raises the thorny issue of the difference between “best painted” and “painting points.” Even if you separate them, I think a lot of people will still be angry when someone who pays to have his army painted for him gets full points in the category because they “didn’t deserve it.” Whether this is simply sour grapes or genuine contention can be debated, but I think it’s still something TOs will have to deal with.
This, among other reasons, is part of why I think that the painting competition and tournament ought to be separated- if you submit something someone else painted to a painting competition, it’s pretty hard to argue anything but fraud. However, when it’s part of a tournament, sympathies run rather differently, as being docked points for not being a master-class painter is not something a lot of players are in favor of.
You got to be fucking kidding me!
@Teri
Simply running an event does not preclude you from attending another qualifying event. And by the way I actively supported tournaments as an outrider in the past. Rule #1- if you run a tournament you should not play in it (other then as a ringer) as it reflects very poorly upon you. Rule #2- Simply running a tournament does not preclude you from supporting/attending another event that IS a qualifier. Rule #3- (aimed at GW) Don’t call it a qualifier (and tournament of champions), if in fact anyone who is connected to the right person in GW or ran an event can attend.
Everything I heard still leaves me to believe it was a quality event. But frankly, you didn’t earn a ticket, so you shouldn’t have been there.
Don’t have to be defensive about it at all. I don’t play in my own events so I’m not sure what you’re implying there.
Just to make it clear, part of getting a nod as a qualifying event is based on whether there not being any other qualifying event nearby.
It may be different in California, but in Alberta (Canada) I’m the only qualifying event in the province in the circuit. My husband, who qualified to ‘Ardboyz prelims had to drive 9ish hours, across 2 provinces and states and across a national boarder to play in semis (from Calgary to Spokane).
Moreover, I’m not sure what you’re implying about my own activities as a TO and as a tournament player – I actually flew out to attend a Las Vegas qualifier – Ironman (not with the intent to qualify at all, mind you, but rather to meet new gamers and make some friends). I support events within the circuit just as I support local, non-GW events. Hobby health to me is integral and I don’t feel as though I’m qualified to run tournaments unless I actually attend events myself as player (which I have done so since 2005).
In terms of your 3rd point, I agree. I never took TOS to be the “tournament of champions” by the time I got my invite – it was clear the format had really put the most competitive of folks off.
I’m just calling you out on how contemptful you sounded for those of us who run events FOR guys like you to actually qualify. I think it was a nice gesture for GW to invite TOs when they had the spaces instead of selling tickets outright. Don’t you agree?
If I sounded angry…then I blame it on a lack of caffeine, as it was not my intention. My only reason was to express my opinion that it can not be called the tournament of champions the way it is currently being handled by GW.
This was part of the original announcement…”How do I get into the 2011 Vegas Throne of Skulls Tournament?
The top two finishing places in each game system in each Independent Tournament on the Circuit will receive an invitation to play in the Vegas Finals in 2011. The top three finishing places from each ‘Ard Boyz Finals will also receive an invitation.” It wasn’t until January of this year that it GW added that VIP’s and others would be given tickets, including some who wanted to purchase them.
It is nothing against you personally TERI. But you could have tried for your ticket in Las Vegas, but for whatever reason you didn’t get one. The simple fact is that by inviting people who didn’t earn a place to go or paid their way to get in, GW turned the lauded ‘Throne of Skulls’ into a Gamesday style non-competitive event.
I do take exception with your statement “I’m just calling you out on how contemptful you sounded for those of us who run events FOR guys like you to actually qualify. I think it was a nice gesture for GW to invite TOs when they had the spaces instead of selling tickets outright. Don’t you agree?” You ran a tournament for whatever motivations prompted you, either money, club or personal commitments or a sense of doing something for the hobby…But the Mother Teresa of wargaming…You definitely are not.
That’s right: my reasons are my own (namely, I want to run the type of event I’d like to play in – there’s enough competitive events out there but I personally don’t think there’s enough hobby-oriented events, and I want to change that.)
And I’m certainly not implying I’m the Mother Teresa of gaming – I’m just saying it was a really nice gesture and probably one of the better decisions made by GW regarding the event.
Given the event your options were: 1)have a quarter-filled hall and likely play a given opponent three or four times (particularly because GW didn’t want “own” that their system was doubling up past pairings) 2) have a filled hall with people who are responsible for GW actually having a circuit or 3) having a filled hall full of players who bought their way in (as will be the case next year).
So a it was a big geek comune with laid back lists and lots of soft scoring. Where you off the mark?
There were certainly some hard lists, especially on the Fantasy side, but on the whole it was a more relaxed tournament than I normally go to. It was a very fun event with a strong community feel to it, IMO.
It wasn’t a big hug-a-thon where everyone sang Kumbayah. The guy who won the Skulltaker award (earning points by FULLY destroying units – counting the unit’s value) destroyed 6800 out of a possible 7500 points using a Grey Knights list that had no Grey Knights. I’d call that pretty hard.
ooh.. out of curiosity would you remember what exactly he or she had in that Grey Knight list?
I honestly can’t – it was a friend of mine who played him. Sorry!
ah well.. thanks anyway
.. been figuring out how to do an “effective” (id say in the middle of winning yet still looking cool) no GK – GK army without having to resort to dreads and vehicles 
I played and beat him round 3.
He had:
* 3 Land Raiders w/ Multi Melta (one of each type / lascannon, crusader and flame)
* Inquisitor Cortez (sp)
* Librarian w/ psyko & rad grenades, might of titans
* Tech Marine w/ psyko & rad grenades
* Group of 3 henchmen (12 pts) as troops to make a land raider scoring.
* 2 Groups of 10 henchmen: 4 assassins, 3 crusaders, 3 archo flagellants.
All 3 land raiders deployed full. One with just the 3 guys to make it scoring. One w/ tech marine & 10 guys (using hammerhand to add +1 str and rad to lower enemy tough by -1). One w/ Librarian, Inquisitor & 10 guys (up to +3 strength, 2d6 on vehicles and -1 enemy toughness).
Very optimized for 1.5k pts, and very good player.
–GZ
Yeah, I would say the GK lists on the the 40K side were the meanest. However, I don’t think a Grey Knight army with no Grey Knights is inherently bad, I think it is cool that you can make a pure inquisitorial army. You can also make a hard as nails tournament list going that route with Psyfilemen Dreads too, tough. The pink chaos army is a bad to the bone tournament list, too, although the gentlemen playing it was a great guy and a ton of fun to play.
By the way Reece, I went 4 Wins, 0 Losses and 1 Tie.
Game 1: Beat the guy that ended up winning Best Space Marine player
Game 2: Tied guy that won for best Dark Angels (DeathWing)
Game 3: Beat the GK guy who got most Skull Taker pts.
Game 4: Some Eldar guy named Reece didn’t show up, forcing me to play my only easy game of the tournament.
Game 5: Beat the guy who I’m pretty sure won for Space Wolves.
So I have no idea on what you’re talking about for it being an easy tournament – I only saw top notch players.
Sad that I missed playing you though.
–GZ