Dec 16, 2011
So I have been thinking a lot about the Black Templars recently.
I’ve been wondering just how now the oldest current codex has won two major events in the last few months?
Granted they were played by same person, but that doesn’t mean the victories had everything to do with the player skill. Something must be going on in the BT codex that makes it possible for it to perform well at two large events.
Personally the Black Templars represent the weakest link in my 40k knowledge or play-testing. It is the only codex I don’t own. I have only played against them three times (all after the latest FAQ) in 5th ed twice winning and the third time my Orks got curbed stomped. In all the games I just treated them like any Marine army and went about my business.
What I find interesting though about the Black Templars is how no one seems to be playing them even in light of the FAQ update. It could just be my local area, but if you read blogs and follow forums little discussion is made about them. I can remember the second latest FAQs went up everyone couldn’t stop talking about the Dark Angels being the second coming when if you follow tournament results they seem to have amount to nothing. Remember all the discussions focused on the Death Wing and how all Terminator armies were going to dominate.
How did that turn out for everyone?
What makes it even stranger is on paper BT seems better than DA all around. Re-rolling everything, cheap troops, tank hunters and not to mention the vows. Still I would consider myself a total amateur when it comes to any discussions about the Black Templars .
So I am curious does Darkwynn know something I don’t?
The internet tells us Land Raiders are point sinks, but in the case of Darkwynn and BT armies in general they seem like a must.
Could it really be as simple as the player is what makes the codex competitive? If it was put in the hands of net listers everything just fall apart or is it more likely the 40k Internet community has missed the boat while spending there hard-earned cash on Cyclone Missiles Launchers for Dark Angels? All I have to say is people better catch up because if (big if) Darkwynn wins Adepticon next year with Black Templars, expect BoLS and Ebay to be awash in everything BT from then to 6th edition.
Not to mention, think of the silly “leaf blower” type name that will be given if he Darkwynn wins with it. My suggestion while we are at is: The Reach Around?
Since I don’t have a lick of Black Templar knowledge I am curious to hear what people think about the codex currently and should people pay more attention to these bad boys of the easily placed Catholic joke?
pathtyphon
TastyTaste
Frank Austin
fluger
Brent
Dethtron
newsun
AbusePuppy
nyhil
That Teri Girl
reecerobbins
badtaste
i will agree with you that it is odd that no one plays BT in my local area. i have a deathwing army but im now feeling after play testing with some proxies that BT are more suited for me. The hardest thing is finding the right scale for BT at certain point lvls.The reroll to hit is amazing, i cant even begin to tell you how many times with my DW wiff on their to hit rolls. Sure wounding is easy with str 8 but if u cant hit the broad side of a barn, then my guys are SOL.
Just my .02
Deathwing88
Two fairly seasoned players in my area are playing BTs, but they are not having much success. I’m guessing that being Darkwynn (or any of the other net celebs/tourney winners)gets you at least half the way there, not just because he’s a good 40k player in general, but he and other people I’ve seen do well at Adepticon seem to understand the impact of the nuances of each codex they play and exploit them. I realize your question is about those nuances, but I thought I would just comment anyway.
Also, Facebook warned me that your site is categorized as “possibly abusive”. LOL.
I can’t even imagine how cheesy BT will be if the rumor to preferred enemy in 6th is true (re rolling to hit for shooting).
But anyways. I think Darkwyn’s list wins because it isn’t familiar. Like you said, not a lot of people play BT and not a lot of people play double Land Raiders. I think most people would be used to playing against AV11, not AV14.
BT have the advantage in a few things (comparing to standard Marines): Terminators with cheap Cyclones (and double Cyclones per five man) with tank hunters, cheap Land Speeder Typhoons, heavy and special weapon in five man Crusader Squads, cheaper Land Raider Crusaders (have to take EA, but MM is free), AAC Vow (preferred enemy), furious charge Assault Terminators, cheaper drop pods (but without Drop Pod Assault, which can be a plus or a minus, depends), any tank can have PotMS, cheap customizable characters, and Righteous Zeal moves.
Disadvantaged in: Expensive Rhinos, Razorbacks, Predators, Vindicators, bikes, and ASMs. Techmarine doesn’t have Bolster Defenses, we don’t have frag/crack standard, no Librarians, no Whirlwinds, no Thunderfire, no uber special characters.
I might have missed some things. Basically we can’t spam normal marines as well, but can do other things better, which I think would lead to some effective, however obscure, builds.
FYI: You said “not to mention the vows” after talking about the re rolling to hit. The re rolling is the vow. The other three are largely useless.
Black Templars have the most cheaty Razor-Spam list by now.
For instance if Blood Angels pay 170 pts for Assault Squad with Plasmagun and Las-Plas/Twin-Las Razorback, BT pay 185 for the same marines, but with Lascannon and Twin-Las Razorback. For only 15 points more they can have 2 Lascannons.
So for 2000pts they will have:
-Champion with bad Vow
-3 Venerable Dreadnoughts with Las/Missile and Tank Hunters
-6 5-man squads with Lascannons and Razorbacks with Twin-Lascannons
-2 Predators Destroyers with Las-sponsons.
Thats 16 Lascannon shots, 4 Autocannon shots and 3 Missile shots.
At least that’s how they won one of the big tournaments in Russia.
That list is illegal and honestly I think that list would be horrible. You can only have one Venerable dreadnought in your list. The Razorback idea is retarded and stupid in all way. They have never won a touranment. The whole concept of the razorback list is just abusrd,
Sorry, I ment 1 Ven and 2 normal Dreads.
Absurd? Taking into consideration how popular Venom-spams, Melta-Vet IG and Razor-Spam this is list is wonderfull.
Who would want to play a list like that?? I’m probably sticking my two cents in with the wrong crowd, but I’m not a “competative” lister, I think that sucks all the fun and character out of the game. That list there, while spraying around a ridiculous amount of lascannon beams (half of which would miss, in my experience), would be no damn fun at all.
I recently bought the BT codex just to see what all the hub-bub was about, and I like them but they’re not all that. You can beef up your guys with special rules like Tank Hunters or Furious Charge, and you can squeeze in extra chaplains and get a free HQ in the Emperor’s Champion. Termie squads can have two heavy weapons but the troops units are a mix of marines and scouts, which is odd (maybe the scouts are your fodder?).
Anyway, my point is they’ve got a cool flavor, why dull it down by smoking a big pack of spam units?
They’re good, really good.
There are a couple reasons why some people might not be playing them: converting/counts as models being a sticking point, ignornace of the amazing FAQ, already having 1, 2, 3, or more marine armies, and already having sunk money into… DE/Necrons/Grey Knights/etc.
Here’s hoping someone takes them all the way.
from what i can tell about BT is they are a marine army designed to work in ways other marine armies don’t
Standard marine play causes them to loose but unique builds(dual raiders) allow them to be successful
With all these new flashy new codices coming out, it’s hard to blame people forgotten the old ones. BT have the right tools to play the 5th edition missions and meta, but when you hear IG, GK, SW, BA and etc are doing so well in tournaments, some people just join the popular wagons instead of revisit the old ones.
Hell, I say Tau still have the right tools to be top tier in the current meta, too, but without tournament records as a proof, who is gonna believe me.
Sadly no tau is not competitive.
fire warriors are the weak link that screws us. And kroot really don’t work anymore.
All tai needs is some discounts and some new items that help tau in 5th.
I think gk servo skulls work great with tau personally.
I run my BT with 30+ missiles (nearly half of those with Tank Hunters). It’s very shooty, and everyone underestimates zealous closing moves and the 25% melee boost Preferred Enemy gives.
I think the BT is still competitive, the only thing that drives me away from playing them is that they are powerful in the wrong places. Dont get me wrong preferred enemy on lightning claw termies with furious charge is just insanity. But the more competitive build is spamming cyclones with tank hunters and to me that doesnt seem very templar… Besides why would I spend the effort in making an army that I know will change greatly in a few months time
ha ha cyclones with tank hunters isn’t very Templar? WTF its the pinnacle of Templars! You can take a termie command squad w/two heavies per five men and still have 3 elite slots open. Yes please! Preferred enemy? hell ya! I love showing the book to opp. Two LR full of guys and a champion for 1000 pts.? Again, yes please. And the LR is a ded. trans. Hell ya! My Chapter is the Peace Korps. “Rest in Peace”
As a Templar player for the last 8-10 years, I have found nothing wrong with them. TBH I suffer from a lil righteous zeal myself and often make mistakes by charging when I shouldn’t (it’s usually for some awesome CC showdown lol). We don’t need rhinos/razorbacks, I haven’t touched mine in over a year, I have 3x LRCs. Techies are fine, sure there’s no bolster but can you smurfs take one with harness and either 2xLCs or power weap and storm shield? Not to mention abusing the command squad rule and giving them furious charge (all leading and attached characters). Also those LRCs come in cheap, not just having the MM turret BUT the EA too, oh and lance? What lance
.Sure they have their downsides (what army doesn’t), but that just makes them interesting. Though I must say, termie cyclones? Nah ASSAULT CANNONS 
(but that’s just a preferance/obsession lol).
Hope this helps your info base