Ok thanks everyone for bearing with me. Here’s the latest version, V5:
“Patch notes” are back!
I am doing generally doing Codex: LATD edits as fast as I can and I haven’t been pausing long enough for proper review. Thank you to the community for helping me get rid of some of the glitches.
I rewrote the allies rules again, these are more well thought out than previous incarnations. They are more lenient, allowing you to take an extra unit per 500 pts. than before. I also added HQs from Codex Daemons and Fabius Bile.
I did not want to give access to Lash of Submission outside of a Apoc type scenario, as it is potentially unbalancing. Likewise many of the HQs from CSM and IG just did not belong, but Greater Daemons and heralds do. Pavane of Slaanesh or whatevere is not nearly as problematic as Lash IMO.
Plague Zombies were too weak, I restored them to T4 and as a present gave them Warp-Spawned. This is a fun little rule shared by Chaos Spawn and a few other units that lets you add one model to the squad for every enemy unit wiped out in melee with a WarpSpawned unit.
Traitors now have Trucks as dedicated transports as they were meant to.
I am also being nice and allowing them an extra bonus:
The Traitors may take a Traitor Truck as a dedicated transport using the entry in the fast attack section. When purchased this way, the Truck will not count against the limit on vehicles imposed by the Scavengers rule.
This should help appease the mech minded masses. Since traitors can upgrade to infiltrate I worry about this being too powerful.
Here’s Abuse Puppy responding and my notes:
The split between Lesser Daemons and Codex: Daemons stuff seems really weird and awkward. Why include both? I would suggest just giving them the Lesser Daemons from the Daemon book and leave it at that.
[color=#0000FF]If including both will be a problem I’ll ditch the generic daemons instead.[/color]
This seems… needless as well. Just include the obvious units from the parent codex and don’t worry about minor stuff. It’s very simple to paste in a line like “Imperial Guard Psyker Battle Squad: See Codex: IG for cost and details,” and it raises fewer questions.
[color=#0000FF]I did the lists in previous editions, I may go back to it. The alliance wording got cleaned up in the meantime and is posted on my blog.[/color]
Just give them the Daemon rule. You don’t have to attach the same text to it as the Daemon rule in that codex.
[color=#0000FF]Good point, but then I want them to deploy normally and not deep-strike. It’s partly an artifact of the past but I have been moving Daemonkin towards invulnerable saves. I can address this in another part of the rules[/color]
This is sort of an awkward ability. Does it really need to be an army special rule? Eh, I guess it’s fine.
[color=#0000FF]I will look at the wording[/color]
So you roll on a chart in order to see how you move randomly. 😐 No. Either have them move 3d6 in the direction of a scatter die (you choose in case of a Hit) or move 2d6 in a direction of your choice. Random movement and mediocre statlines (yes, I know you updated them) are already very punishing.
[color=#0000FF]After much tinkering that seems like a worthwhile solution. I’ll ditch the chart, it is too slow and clunky.[/color]
Why does Curse of the Machine Spirit have a 20″ range? Everything in the game is multiples of 6″ these days.
[color=#0000FF]Idiosyncracy I guess. 24″ it is.[/color]
Prescience… basically just doesn’t work. Don’t make abilities like this.
Psychic powers are never continuous. Abilities that work continuously without need for a psychic test are just abilities, not psychic powers (like the Doom of Malan’tai’s Spirit Leech, etc), even if they are psychic-themed.
Fear is… very oddly worded. Why not just give it two shooting profiles, one that causes Pinning and one that causes a Morale check?
Rending and Poison should probably be the same cost. Rending isn’t actually that scary.
[color=#0000FF]Yeah lately I have been lowering the cost on rending where I see it but I need to do a more thorough points cost standardization at some point.[/color]
Standard Power Fist cost for S4 models is 25pts, not 20pts. Not sure if that was intentional.
Wolf guard pay 20. The LATD army gets bumps in CC ability to balance for deficiency in other areas.[/color]
Don’t call wings/bikes/steeds Transports. Transport has a meaning within the game.
Is Powerful Allies intended to make ANY CSM unit you take scoring? Keep in mind that will include tanks, Dreads, dedicated transports, etc.
You should probably specify where the 5++ save he has comes from.
Why does he have Furious Charge and Relentless?
[color=#0000FF]FC already removed, Relentless was an artifact[/color]
Needs the Psyker rule, as it stands he can’t use his powers. Also needs a Mastry level. Do you mean Psyker Battle Squads in his entry? It’s generally better not to have characters actually change the unit entry of their optional troops.
You don’t need to list the upgrade character’s gear separately unless it’s different. Should probably say “one SQUAD MEMBER may be upgraded…” rather than “one character.” The Boss has a listing for options, but no options there. As a rule, avoid “up to three members of the squad” listings in favor of “one member per XX in the squad,” as the latter gives an actual reason to take larger squads.
What does the Mindless special rule do? What does Warp-Spawned do?
special rules marked with * are either army wide rules that are at the beginning, I currently do not have a bestiary so they are there. I need to make this more clear somehow.[/color]
Combat Drug Addicts
Not all Fearless units need to be Leadership 10; this is a good situation for where a lower value would make sense. Give them either “pair of close combat weapons” or Pistol+CCW, listing CCW twice looks like a misprint. Again, Rending and Poison should be the same cost. Why do they have grenades? Are a bunch of strung-out addicts really that prepared? A4 for 10pts is a pretty good deal, especially with S4 on the charge; probably not overpowered, but worth considering. 8-24 is a very strange unit size, why not make it something even (5-30, 10-20, etc)?
[color=#0000FF]Updated. As for the unit size, blood for the blood god.[/color]
T4 on a 6pt model is fairly significant, especially with A3; that means a random mutant is as tough as a Space Marine or Ork (both of which are supposed to be far beyond human) and with a fury even beyond that of any but the mightiest of exemplars of men. Again, this is probably not overpowered, it just strikes me as mechanically a bit odd.
[color=#0000FF]Codex Eye of Terror had them at 4 toughness. I figure that if a guardsmen with 2 baseball bats counts as 2 attacks, than adding a tentacle arm or claws should take it to 3. I had a shittier mutant choice called rabble but I [color=#BF0000]EXTERMINATUS[/color] [/color]
6pt FNP models are enough of a bargain that the Plaguemaster seems like pretty much an auto-include. Presumably they aren’t scoring without him, I guess due to Mindless?
[color=#0000FF]These were already supposed to be at 7, I am moving them to 8 now that their profile is better than it was with the higher toughness Should I go back to 3 and a lower cost? There should be a horde element to them.[/color]
It seems odd that you can have two guys carrying one Plasma Gun and then one guy carrying another. Also, as before, it’s probably better to have the special weapons be an “one per X guys” option. (The heavy team is fine as a one per squad.)
[color=#0000FF]Cleaned up a little[/color]
Kinda a lame name. Commandeered Vehicle? Scavanged Vehicle? I dunno. Again, repeat listing of gear make it look like it might be a misprint; just have it as “two front-mounted heavy stubbers.” Smoke Launchers and Searchlight as standard gear seem odd for what appears to be a shoddy, run-down wannabe tank.
[color=#0000FF]Good points and I like the name. I stripped all wargear options for now except for weapons, I will add something custom later down the road.[/color]
Giant Chaos Spawn
Aspiring Champions seem to be able to join these and other Spawn. Is that intentional? You can probably drop their price a bit, as it stands they’re basically Carnifexes (which are bad.)
Traitor HW Teams
Are Dominators and Weapon Teams the same price? It doesn’t say. If it’s 12pts per weapon team, they are definitely undercosted- remember, an IG HWT is 60pts for three teams and are a perfectly fine deal. Being able to get Stealth/Infiltrate/Tank Hunters (which is the correct USR name, not Tankbusters) adds significantly to their utility and more than makes up for not being scoring.
I can do a more full review and evaluation of the codex another time, perhaps.[/quote]
[color=#0000FF]Cool, thanks.. posting V5 on my blog now, at BOK.[/color]
Here’s a paste of the allies rules, I would like to condense them for elegance at some point but I needed to expand to be comprehensive.
A Lost and The Damned army may select allies from other Codexes. These will occupy the same force organization chart and have all the same options as the original entry.
You may take a certain number of allies depending on the size of the game:
1,000+ points 1 ally
1,500+ points 2 allies
2,000+ points 3 allies
2,500+ points 4 allies
These may be selected from:
Codex: Imperial Guard
Codex: Chaos Space Marines
There are a few exceptions:
No HQ choices or Platoons are allowed from Codex: Imperial Guard
No HQ choices are allowed from Codex: Chaos Space Marines
Vehicle squadrons must be a single vehicle only
Allied units will not count as scoring unless a Codex Lost and the Damned HQ choice specifically says they will.
Dedicated transports costing under 100 points purchased with a unit do not count as an additional ally choice.
Units from Forgeworld books and “homebrew” Codexes may be included only with opponent permission.
Some Lost and the Damned H.Q. Choices will open up additional ally choices, detailed in the character’s army list entries.
For narrative campaigns or special scenarios, feel free to work out with your opponent your own rules for allies.