Hooray, we’re back on the regular posting schedule at long last. But ho ho, it’s not that easy. It could never be that easy. Brace yourselves for what may go down as one of the most entertainingly painful FNIFs of all time. I have to give it up to WidthofaCircle for a) being a huge Bowie fan b) e-mailing me this thread and c) preserving everything that Taak spit out before getting banned and his shit deleted.
From the BoLS lounge we have yet another post on The Decline of 40K. If there is one thing I’m sick of at this point in my life it’s posts about the decline of 40k. If there are two things I’m sick of it’s posts about the decline of 40k and posts about GW’s finances. Luckily this thread has both. I think there may be a rant on this subject brewing in me that will materialize eventually, but we’ll see if I can get my rage out on this one. Long story short, I’m sick of all the whining for no reason (never seen a customer base who hates their core product so much) and am sick of people who don’t understand how businesses run, finance, or economics, trying to pontificate about how GW is inept or evil, as they are neither. Sorry, didn’t mean to drop my secret knowledge on you so early, but there’s plenty more to come.As always, none of the names have been changed to protect the innocent, but their avatars have been for my amusement. Actually, that’s not true- Xanadu has been changed to WidthofaCircle at his own request. Post order has been changed and portions of this fight not affecting the fight’s outcome have been edited out due to being banal. There’s a poll at the bottom of the page, so don’t forget to vote for who you think is swimming in the goo at the bottom of the gene poll the best. My own comments are snowmobiled in in red. Strap yourselves in folks, this is going to be a bumpy ride.
Fuzzbucket- // WARNING big massive rant// this is bias and does go off topic to gk new dex hate -_- ~oh fuck. What’s with everyone editing their first post to predicate the impending disaster you’re about to bear witness to?
sadly its true.
Fuzzbucket- ( but first a little about me) ~I was born a poor black child I remember the days, sittin’ on the port with my family, singin’ and dancin down in Mississippi…
i started playing 40k in 4rth ed. ~wow, what a long and storied tradition of playing this game trough its many editions you’ve developed Through my eager eyes everything appeared new, different, new and exciting. all my eldars had rules and stats that were different to my friends tryanids, necrons and tau. ~just puked on my shoes. Gonna need a clean up on aisle me! then i started playing grey knights and blood angels. it was great. although it was just 2 power armored armies the blood angels (PDF dex) were fast and brutal and even though the lack of units each unit did its own cool thing. grey knights were fun to play with, always 2 S6 attacks per model and terminators that could mince the tyrnid heavies in minuets ~with their dancing?
Taak- Wait on, you started in 4th ed and you think you have the right to say everything looked shiny and new and different but now it doesn’t? Do you even remember the space sharks? No not those bleeding space marines, the actual space sharks. What about Dominators? or Space Slaan? ~now, that one I don’t even remember. Did Van Vogt’s estate sue them over this or something?
I started in 2nd ed, everything was shiny and new ~and full of wretchedly awful single pose, horridly sculpted plastic minis and in each edition things get reworked so as 1) the game evolves better and 2) GW can actually survive as a business. of course things get changed, hev you seen some of the **** published in the rogue trader era? ~yeah, like that stupid fucking Jokaero… oh wait, shit Oh, I guess you thought original space marine legions were the be all and end all of the original legions, but what about the original chapters begore the legions existed? Who cares if fluff changes, you still see veterans of 20+ years using Zoats in their armies, why can’t you? Oh wait, Boring.~nothing wrong with being boring
Fuzzbucket- 1) blandness. ~yeah, I hate how they added yet more depth to the fluff and added all those new units to every new codex, while bringing back some long gone old units (except you you fucking space monkey piece of shit… you know who I’m talking to)
dark eldar, space wolves and blood angels all did their models well. marines were ruined by some things (thunderfire!) but all the models were good. ~so good looking models are a problem? I’d also like to add anything sculpted by Aly Morrison to your nonexistent worst models ever list, though
3) lack of new useful content in WD and coedexes ( or even online) ~gotta say, they’ve at least got some decent painting tutorials. Much better than the ones from the early 90s, where half the steps were skipped.
4) removal of charecturful models lets see ~I know, it sucks that all those new codices have like 5 times more specials in them than before
MARCHIUS ~who was replaced by Mariachius- Happy 6 de Mayo, Putas! (greatest imperial commander since the hersy), Penal legions, marine doctrines, trannic veterans (what made ultramarines less cookie cutter) ~oh you mean the shit that has more or less been replaced by two new units- Vanguard and Sternguard, wulfen, 13th company, Teleport attack squads, Grey knight terminators HOLOCAUSt, Grey knights heroes, INQUISITORIAL Storm troopers ~umm still in the game, fyi, Familiars, orbital strikes, shall i continue? ~only if you want to look even more stupid
Taak- Orbital strikes were removed? since when? teleport attack squads also gone? Since when? Inquisitorial storm troopers are still there – of wait you don’t know about the sisters of battle, you poor ****ing sap.~shazaam
Wulfen? HELLO MARK OF THE FREAKING WULFEN! LEARN YOUR ****ING BACK GROUND BEFORE POSTING UTTER TRIPE YOU NINNY HEADED SEAL!
Who the **** is MARCHIUS?
What’s the HERSY? Is ita chocolate Bar? ~I think so. I hope it has hazelnuts
TRANNIC VETERANS? I didn’t know there were transexual veterans in 40k.~oh shit, I think I should be wearing a diaper if this is how the rest of this is going to go
Wulfen? HELLO MARK OF THE FREAKING WULFEN! LEARN YOUR ****ING BACK GROUND BEFORE POSTING UTTER TRIPE YOU NINNY HEADED SEAL! ~that may be the most French tauntingly Monty Pythonesque insult I’ve seen in a 40K forum to date.
GW is now a business. ~for the record, you dumbfuck, I’m pretty sure GW became a business the first time they exchanged money for good or services 25+ years ago 40k is no longer GW’s little fun project ~yes, I’m sure it’s become a boring, tedious chore that they all hate. The designers and testers are all strapped to a mill stone that they have to turn to churn out product, I’m sure, with players who love to play it and are listened to by the company. ~always glad to see well reasoned, fact-based arguments
PP is not like this however in 10 years they will be the same ~well, they may not be much of one, but calling them not a business seems a little unfair
Taak- Yes, because they never were a business. And players don’t love 40k, that’s why there’s still hundreds of thousands of 40k players avidly playing even after all this time new or otherwise… ~crap, now I have to go buy a new sarcasm detector, because you just broke it
Fuzzbucket- writing faq’S takes time , time = money so dont make interesting codex’s that need FAq’s just make them so bland they dont need FAQ’d . ~I have a feeling it’s all pointless and nothing will ever be enough for you
Models? yeah do them in CAD and make them super pretty from 1 angle only! (try and find a rear shot of the GKT’s on GW website) ~just pretend I made a really insensitive joke about how he wants to look at fannies here and commence sending your hatemail about how I’m a bigoted homophobe (which I am not, for the damn record!)
Consumers? after 10+ years they dont buy as much as new blood that will buy a army instantly. ~oh for fuck’s sake, you can’t make claims like that without market research. Let’s not even talk about how you’re describing the clustered and sporadic sales that businesses don’t want. Have you noticed how GW’s release schedule over the last several years gives them a steady revenue stream rather than 2 or 3 good months of sales a year? No, you probably didn’t
Clever businessmen who can make profit and not line their pockets whilst listening to the consumer…. no thanks well take kirby.D:< (there was a article on http://theback40k.blogspot.com/ tat showed kirby ~Hi Sandwyrm. Let’s get matching Kirby tats. It’ll look real tough, I swear as the ((%(%&)(*&%(*)^&$ that he really is.)
Taak- I don’t know what Kirby you’re talking about, but there’s only one kirby online that counts and you can’t freaking bag that prick out because only he and I are allowed to bag each other out. ~listen, what you two are doing with your bags out is your own business, but this is a family site, so knock it off Also your link fails. It links to a good solid online blog. But no article. ~the article was so powerful that it became self aware and realized that in order to save humanity, it must destroy itself. It was really selfless and poetic. I wish you’d seen it What were your intentions? Also, No idea if my swearing will be auto censored, but if not, man up and swear properly not hide behind a chunk of garbled symbols. ~you you let that $%&*@@!%%%^8008 mother #$^%^* have it If you’re gonna rage, rage in such a way that you get warned or banned, because hey, you suck *** otherwise (not that you don’t already). ~so you’re advising him to do unto others as you are doing unto him- also, does anybody else ever feel tempted to start pronouncing doing as a 1 syllable word?
Fuzzbucket hey lets take 25 mins to publish useful content in codex’s and online… .~I think you have a serious issue understanding what goes into publishing. Guess I should have known that from your spelling though. My bad. NAAH lets just publish bulldung
grey knights allies.. pff make cheesy and unfluffy armies ( insert great sarcasm herE)
Taak- HEY LETS TAKE 2 MINUTES TO RESPOND TO THIS LOAD OF HORSE **** BECAUSE YOU CAN’T BE ARSED ****ING SPELL CHECKING WHAT YOU ARE RANTING THE **** ABOUT AND SO PEOPLE WHO DON’T SPEAK ENGLISH AS THEIR PRIMARY LANGUAGE DON’T HAVE A CLUE WHAT YOU ARE GOING ON ABOUT OR YOU KNOW, *****ING AND GRIPING ABOUT THE FLUFF WHEN YOUC AN’T EVEN GET THAT THE **** RIGHT?!?>@! ~yeah, definitely should have gotten the diapers out for this one
IT’S MARCHARIUS, LORD SOLAR, TO BE PRECISE! ~uh, still wrong
TYRANNIC WAR VETERANS, TO BE PRECISE, AND HEY THEY WERE REPLACED WITH STERNGUARD, WHICH WORK REALLY WELL WITH THE BACKGROUND ALREADY BUT HEY YOU IGNORED THAT AND ALL THE ASSOCIATED THINGS BECAUSE LOOK THEY CHANGED THE NAME!
MARK OF THE WULFEN EXSIST SO TOO DO WULFEN, LEARN YOUR CODEX RULES AND BACKGROUND BEFORE RANTING TO PEOPLE WHO JUST READ THIS AND GO FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
THIS PLACE AUTO-SPELL CHECKS, WHY THE **** DID YOU NOT USE THIS? MAYBE THEN PEOPLE WOULD HAVE BOTHERED READING MORE THEN JUST THE FIRST POST.
*HELLO BIGRED, LAUGHED AT ANY WOMEN WHO MISCARRIAGED LATELY? ~ is all I have to say to that entire situtation
Auretious Taak. ~damnit Taak. I’m suspicious that you staged this whole thing as a way of making FNIF.
Fuzzbucket- really i try to like GW but honestly it really gets hard sometimes ~kind of doesn’t seem like you like them or are trying… .i need to check with local GW people that i can still use codex DH ~I think you need to continue using the BH codex. That’s butt hurt! You know, that went better in my head…
-fuzz ~of course! Why should I expect any less?
Bitzbarn- I totally have to say you seem to be in decline because of a perceived issue or something the business is Great more players than ever and I have to say they have increased new codex’s 2fold I was playing in 3rd and if they released 2 codex’s a year that was average in 2002 and 2003. ~Cormac McCarthy called. He wants his run on sentence back No we get 4 or 5 in a 12 month period and MUCH better models.
It is GW’s Fluff so they can rewrite and you have only been in the game since 4th so hard to see a deep historical perspective. No offense. ~none taken That Idea that 10+ years and you spend less is an Old GW powerpoint slide they use to say that 1st year consumer spend x dollars and 2nd year drops off by 10% and so on losing 10% a year and when I asked them about the numbers, like where did they come from they admitted they made it up
Yes White Dwarf is not as good but they still pimp the LOTR and that hurts and I miss the Chapter Approved. They need MUCH better Public relations.
Seems to e a generational issue with Business like business is EVIL and steals form people because Tylenol is evil and so is SC Johnson and all their cleaning products and heaven forbid is a guy makes a new thing that helps people and makes a buck along they way GOOD for him ~I think I want to agree with you, but may need to go find a translator. I don’t speak gibberish
Cyberscape7- Addmitedley I’ve only been playing since 4th edition so I don’t have as wide a view on how much the hobby has been changed but the changes that have happened so far I find quite good. ~well, at least you admit that this may be a shortcoming when talking about change over time. Unlike a certain OP I seem to recall…. Maybe there have been a few muck ups on fluff and rules in the past, but thats to be expected- after all if the rules and fluff were made perfect there wouldnt be any need for new editions of the rules. All I can say is, change happens- adapt or change hobbies ~or play the old rules with like-minded buddies
This is the first time you’re seeing Codexes ~hey Brent! Hey! Did you see it, nobody has used the correct plural of Codex yet. We’re with you Brent. turn around. In fact armies that you have been playing for however long are suddenly getting updates and you dont like the change, but the game has been changing since the start and you are only just now noticing because you havent been around long enough to notice it before. Trust me, I hate the GK codex too, I feel like they used to be unique and special and are now little more than another SM chapter (which they arent supposed to be in fluff) with a bunch of ridiculous rules with no basis, but I accept it because its all a part of the game. Things change as time goes on, Veterans have been dealing with this forever. ~down with voices of reason Its why you dont see them *****ing, ~much better. Was that so hard? change is nothing new.
And dude, you are far too new to the hobby to get teary eyed about how GW ‘used to be’. You dont know. Not saying I do either, but you damn well dont. ~you may be newer to 40k, but I think you’re getting the hang of calling out bullshit on the intertubes
Kovnik Obama- they are a publicly traded company. Thats entails a lot of responsabilities to a third party (the investors) which can be contrary to the gamer’s interest (basically, his money). ~ugh, here we go again. A privateer fan boy trying to talk business. Call me when it’s over PP is privatly owned by its creators. ~so there’s no way they might have interests contrary to gamers… worst argument ever. Anyway, GW could still be a decent publicly traded company if they changed their edition format, and that’s where PP beat them hands down. With PP, I can buy ONE book and play up to 6 factions ~so that Khador only book helps you play Cygnar how? Get your fucking facts straight , each with more “HQ”, unit, specialist and vehicules ~is this word used in science or is it Spanish? Actually it could almost be Greek- help me out on this one Antipope, what’s vehicules mean? than any codexes have (do the count), for about 8 years, until they update the rules to deal with the inevitable bloat. THAT is why PP business model is TEN BILLION TIMES better than GW. ~because they can’t generate enough working capital and don’t have the credit facilities to increase their production (this is all assume, but highly likely, since I don’t have secret knowledge of their not-public financials). Yeah, that private ownership is really doing wonders for them.
And Yes they can do whatever they want with it… But I will judge them accordingly too… Its just that saying that PP and GW have the same business model, is just ignorant ~pretty sure he said that they are both business, which is a very true statement. And the relation PP keeps with its player base, like by having open beta of the games, is just one of the best example of that. ~ok, everybody is apparently entitled to have at least a single valid point. Everybody gets one
Yeah, GW’s sucks at this buisness thing compared to PP
Not only your playing dumb, but your a liar. ~when calling somebody out on their stupidity, I’d advise against making 4 grammatical errors in an 8 word sentence.
Bad troll. ~pot. kettle.
Skragger- Actually, that one I beg to differ with. ~finally, somebody besides Taak who can formulate coherent sentences… sarcastic, btw My GW rep for the store confirmed GW posted a profit of $24-30,000,000 USD in 2010 ~and I’d happily confirm for you that revenue is not profit, you dipshit. Although based on both of your figures combined, a 24-30% gross margin seems pretty healthy. Not sure where you’re getting 60,000,000 Pound Sterling from (and 60M pounds is closer to 150,000,000 US. Even CAD is doing better than the us dollar) . ~it’s probably coming from your inability to read. Hell, it might even be from your inability to do math. 60M sterling * 1.6 $/sterling = $97M last I checked.
(Quote from my GW Rep in an E-mail correspondance: “Last year Games Workshop did $24M in sales. ~profit =/= sales, and I’m not even going to bother going to the annual report to verify this, but it’s very likely that they’re only referring to retail operations or GW US or something like that in that figure. $24M in sales would be reason to close the fucking doors. The big box store I used to run would do $30M a year in gross revenue from our single unit alone- and we were smaller than most other locations 30% of those sales came from Ranges 2 and 3.”)
HOW IS IT NOT CLEAR THAT I WAS REFERRING TO THE EDITION UPDATE FORMAT??? ~your failure to make that point remotely clear probably made that difficult
I NEVER SAID GW WAS LESS PROFITABLE THAN PP : I SAID ITS A PUBLICLY TRADED COMPANY’ OF COURSE ITS GONNA BE MORE PROFITABLE. ~step one in “Getting that Cash for Your Business: the Kovnik Way:” go public. Step 2: ??? Step 3: Business will be much success having
and I’m not sayiong anything about the models being OOP, I’m saying ARMIES ARE DISCONTINUED, and CHOICES ARE DISCONTINUED.
Gir- That last army to be discontinued (for 40k at least) was squats. ~may they rest in peace in their tiny little space coffins Many many many many decades ago. ~well, seeing as to how I’m 30, started playing at 13 and the Squats were nuked in my early gaming career, I don’t know that you need that many manys. All I’m saying is please don’t make me feel older than I already am. For fuck’s sake, my barber made fun of my gray hair yesterday.
I’m also interested in how many 40k choices have been dropped, as I can’t think of anything stand out. ~better yet, what’s the change in units dropped to units added. Guarantee there are at least 5 new units added to every 1 dropped in the last 5 years.
Kovnik Obama- 40k choices that were discontinued ; just look at all the Heroes that are dropped from one codex to the other. ~oh no! Commissar Gaunt! How will I ever play Dan Abnetthammer now? If only they would add a new commissar HQ to represent a more powerful than normal Commissar. IG heavy weapon platform that changes base format. ~so changing the platform, but keeping the unit counts as discontinuing. I guess GW discontinues pretty much everything every time they release a new codex by your standards. I fear you may never be happy with the outcome. Its not that many choices, mind you, and it’s not as terrible as loosing you entire army, like Dog’s of War or Chaos Dwarf. ~which are coming back, btw. Good job doing your homework on that one But it’s still ****ty practices, when you think this is all a hobby. ~yes, discontinuing unprofitable product lines is a terrible decision. Especially when there is a powerful secondary market that will ensure collectors will still have access to said line exists. And more than anything, its not necessary. PP prooved it ; every single choices ~plural disagreement. Consider revising ever to come out is still 100% supported, without any edition lag.~so you’re saying that every army book is out for warmachine now. Oh they’re not. You mean the latest edition of Warmachine has been out for what, like almost a year, and they’re still a book or two short. Oh fuck!
GW doesn’t discontinue choices every other day (thank god). But when I see an option, with some rules, and that I decide that I want to buy that option, I feel raped when I later discover that I payed money for something I can’t use anymore. And no, “count as” isn’t the same thing. ~blah blah blah
~must be all those addictive chemicals they’re using. Fucking jackass lets face it, what bigger group of OCD people are there than gamers?!
All the rules get changed not for the betterment of the game, but to sell different things.~that’s all a matter of perspective. Does selling more things to keep the game in existence and build GW’s ability to improve its release schedule, customer service, etc not better the game? Does increasing shareholder wealth not allow GW to get recognized by a wider audience and thus be able to cross in to film and gaming?
It is like a skewed Natural selection. the selling games are kept and the good but less selling games are discarded and never seen again. ~yeah, most businesses do that. Try and get me a crystal pepsi or a Zima and see how far you get. Are you going to go home an cry about it? it may really shock some people that 15 years ago systems like:
BFG, Epic, Gorkamorka, Necromunda etc were not just stocked in some sort of Indiana Jones Warehouse but actively promoted! Now its just 40k and fantasy. and dumbed down versions of both.~I think the current round of codices show a complexity and sophistication not yet seen from GW. Sure the rules may be easier, but that just facilitates a better gaming experience, letting you tackle the complexity of the game at home with your army lists.
Gotthammer- That’s not some evil GW business pratice – it’s common sense. ~Heil Gotthammer! Go into your local supermarket, find a product you’ve never bought, and nobody ever seems to buy. In time it will disappear from the shelves. ~I’ll miss you Diet Coke Plus QQ Even if some people buy it in your local area, it doesn’t mean it’s popular everywhere.
The company will look at sales as a whole vs how much money they could potentially make using the shelf space to stock something they’ll sell more of / have a higher profit margin on.
Rocdocta- do you remember when in 40k:
– all armies had different movement rates so the stat meant something?!
– terrain blocked LOS so it could be used tactically~maybe you should build better terrain. A good portion of mine still blocks terrain
– FNP was not a game wide crutch that was rare
– Fearless was a rare unit rule
– when there wasnt the blandness of universal rules. Each army felt unique and not boxed into the same pigeon hole… “oh you play necrons..so they are plague marines with some kind of save? ~I’m so tired of this bullshit that I don’t even have anything to say
– when tanks lived in fear of glancing and transports were rare?
– when there were 2 damage tables! this allowed more results! but must have been thought too hard for some to grasp and was condensed into that rubbish 1 table. ~…and in the darkness bind them
– when there were data sheets per vehicle with multiple damage entries for turrets, tracks, hull, etc. Much more detail. ~well go fucking play battletech then, if you like complicated record sheets
ie mech 40k is a prime example. for the points of 2 marines that cost the player about $10, they can sell a rhino that costs a player $50 or $60. They are just value adding their own product to sell more high cost models. ~ok, so this is just a hard dose of reality. Transports only add a marginal tactical value to your troops and should not cost many points. Transport kits are large and expensive to produce. Modern and sci fi armies need transports to function. Fuck, you’d be bitching about them taking your rhinos away or be complaining to all the new players that you ‘remember when a rhino was $35. We had to work to get them in my day. We didn’t have the 2 for $20 transports and rap music that you kids are so into now when I was growing up.’
I have played since 94 so have seen all the game cycles. Always cracks me up to see people defending GWs business model until the day they realise that they too are stuck with obsolete or redundant old models and are forced to buy the next big thing… ~If the original sentinel models, for example, were still commercially available today, I would feel embarrassed for GW. Technology changes. They can make better looking stuff and update their rules. Probably a good idea to do that to avoid getting stale and provide those of of interested in aesthetics with a treat now and then
In the quest to remove “wasted” profit by supporting other games, is the GWs product line destined to condense into 1 single product with 1 single phase? flip a coin to see who wins… sarcasm i know…but it may only be a matter of time… ~please don’t come back. why couldn’t you be the one who gets banned?
- Took four or more hours to play?
– Terrain was based on True Line of Sight (it has been in three out of five editions!)?
– You would randomise equipment on a D100 chart?
– Vehicles had crew who could escape the wreck and continue to fight?
– There were six vehicle damage tables?
– Nobody had vehicles because GW didn’t make any?
– The robot program system that was impossible to make work? ~don’t even need to get my broken sarcasm detector fixed to sense this one.
WidthofaCircle- Wow, I didn’t think people with this kind of views had discovered the BoLS Lounge, merely staying isolated to the comment lulz, insulting anyone with a different opinion to themselves, challenging something new and different (like competitive 40K) or beating on poor Goatboy. ~hey that sonofabitch just made a Venture Brothers list that seems to have nothing to do with the Venture Brothers. I’ll see his head on a pike for that
Firstly I want to paraphrase a modicum of sensibility ~boring I saw in the endless BoLs comment lulz last week (whilst insulting Goatboy none-the-less):
‘Just because it is the Internet, it doesn’t mean you can piss in the wind and ignore good grammar and spelling.’ ~ok, I jumped the gun. It wasn’t so boring. continue…
People should learn to adapt to changes between books and be happy that things *have* changed for the better (I’d prefer a new book akin to the GK-scale rewrite for my Eldar rather than the copy-paste that we’re stuck with at the moment – try it, it really sucks).
Seriously, you’re moaning about some small changes to your previously decrepit codex and things that have changed for the better across the board in this book. Good lord knows how much you’d moan if it had been Cruddace rewriting your codex. ISTs are Henchmen, get it? GK Land Raiders = Inquisitorial Land Raiders.
With regards to the incorporation of FNP into most of the newer codexes, this represents the whole:
‘But why can’t I have the shiny, Jemima over there has it as does Pauline, but not me…?’-viewpoint. If some dexes had it and others didn’t people would moan way more than you do here. I bet you wouldn’t moan if you could get more Apothecaries than you could shake a stick at in your dex… Hold on! BA get Sanguinary Priests everywhere…
I understand that you are bitter about the loss of strength 6 to S4, but I’d be much happier with force weapons regardless of a decrease in my guys Strength ~wait wait wait- don’t they still have weapon options or free psychic powers that pretty much ensure they’ve always got S6 or better anyway? I haven’t really given the new book a good read through, but that seems to have stuck out in my mind. . ID is greater than 1 wound in my book.
Characters swapping the FoC around makes fluffier armies possible (making fluff-nuts happier = more likely to shower), the whole:
‘I want an army of über-doodz ~doood, how the fuck did you get the umlaut to work. ctrlshift: seems only to work in Word. Do you have a fancy international keyboard or is there some universal macro I don’t know? ‘ thing is possible, but due to point costs, with respect to the capabilities of the other 5th Ed codexes *is* balanced.
E.g. A Draigo-wing army has around 25 dudes who will fall over to massed lasguns/shuriken/splinters – proof is in the pudding. 40K is gradually becoming more balanced whether you acknowledge it or not, and thus more suitable for a competitive play style.
With regards to your second point about models, you can still get hold of older sculpts if needs be, so stop moaning about some problems that only affect one of the plastic kits. AFAIK the PAGKs are a good set of models with no real problems, and detailing that would make an older Forgeworld kit jealous… GW’s recent track record with plastic kits has been fantastic, I challenge you to find anything wrong with the new DE sculpts other than they don’t show enough body on the females for you to touch yourself to. ~oh snap
Sister Rosette Soulknyt- ~is one of the worst names I’ve seen in a good long while so…. flying nun avatar for you Auretious Taak: seriously did you get kicked off Warseer and decide to join here?? ~are we talking about the Warseer that is barely up and running? take a pill, chill a little and be a lSo’s your face, but we can’t really discuss that here.
Be a lot more respectful ok. No one likes a loud mouthed cursing troll on here. ~well, with all the asterisks, we may never know if he really was cursing
Taak- Jeez talk about not reading responses after my now deleted response. I mean I got LOVE girl. What did you get? Nothing so far. You just had to turn around and have a go at me because my opinion didn’t agree with yours? Why are you trolling Warseer for? Hypocrite much? ~so many inside things happening here. I don’t even know who we’re referring to anymore
Taak- Read above, i got LOVE by Xanadu. That’s better then Like ~but is it better than like like? . Also, tone is subjective. I believe my tone was EPIC TONE. In the key of c# to be precise. ~crap, I thought you were in the key of angry minor this whole time. Looks like I need to go back and rewrite the string parts I just transcribed.
Sister Rosette Soulknyt- “So’s your face, but we can’t really discuss that here.”
Great way to start by insulting someone you don’t even know and has a lot more respect here than a troll looking for his name. ~I found his name easily. All his posts have it, and he even signed his first one
Taak- This guy insulted us with the trash that spewed from his mouth, I responded accordingly. ~I think you just said you spewed trash What, I’m not allowed to voice my opinions but an ignorant full of crap seal is? ~pretty much No wonder BoLS gets bagged out on Warseer.
Sister Rosette Soulknyt-Finally Auretious Taak stop being a spelling **** on your first post, Don’t like the fact go be a school teacher. ~yes, that automatically means he likes low paying, back breaking jobs
Also, you aren’t a mod, ~the lack of form fitting suit, pork pie hat, and vespa should have been the first indication and if you are, wow, 353 posts to be a mod, talk about a fail achievement.
Sister Rosette Soulknyt- I have played also since 2nd ed. And with many of the changes it’s either progress or it’s for easier rules. Do you really want to play a 2,000 point game that takes an hour or more per players turn with every rule? ~no. no I don’t
Taak- Geez, no wonder you’re a hater, didn’t you ever learn to play fast? I bet you’re one of those players who sees a tyranid player drop down 180+ models at 1500pts and groans because My God! They’ll never be able to play a fast game with that many models! ~Ok, at this point, I don’t even know what you’re doing other than arguing to be argumentative.
Sister Rosette Soulknyt-GW streamlined the game for quick games targeting younger teens as they have gullible parents willing to buy them anything to shut them up over the holidays.~I have a friend, let’s call him Hoagy, who to this day still complains about how they don’t make the Judge Dred game anymore and that 40k is too kid friendly now.
Sister Rosette Soulknyt- For all older players here that actually have lots of old miniatures that are redundant, well GW doesn’t care, they want you to go out with your hard earned money and buy all the new editions, new SC’s and new codex’s. Why? well there a business that’s why.
Just like the new Iphones, it’s new, shiny, got apps, and it does this and that, so buy it because everyone else is. That’s what GW does.
Look new BA, or GK codex with all new shiny precious thingys, you have to buy it…..
Taak- Ummm dude, you don’t get what life is all about – Freedom. you know all the odler editions are still perfectly playable yeah? Heck i saw a Rogue Trader tourney the other day lol. Not one of the tourney tourneys but using the 1st ed 40k rules. heh. ~fun. But more importantly, do you realize you’re on the same side in this argument? I know that would get in the way of your trolling, but c’mon
Sister Rosette Soulknyt- So, look if you don’t like the way GW does business, find a new hobby. Its called pregress. Do you think GW is going to NOT make more miniatures, codex’s or upgrades? Then they may as well close the doors and sell up. They have to make money….
i disagreed with bigred and co laughing on a small time forum about some other internet heroman of the wardollies whose wife had a miscarriage, again.
I just laughed at the nublet who cracked this thread for his absolute fail at life.
Also, his face really is funny. how do you know we’ve not met in rl before? You don’t, because you don’t know me ~you don’t know me. This is what we’ve come to . way to make presumptions.
It just plain and simple costs alot more than it used to cost ~haha, not so dipshit. You’re looking at money the totally wrong fucking way. This is inspired by a similar argument I saw recently about the cost of gaming consoles. Showing somebody that an Atari 2600 cost something like $900 in today’s money ended that one really quickly. So, 2 space marines in 1990 cost $7.50. That’s $37.50 for the squad. Adjusting for inflation (just assuming monthly compounding at 3.1% for the 1990 to 2011 period), that squad would cost $71.84 in today’s money. Hooray for the time value of money! That’s actually twice what a tactical squad costs today (source: 1990 Citadel Price List). So GW’s pricing has not even kept up with the rate of inflation for Tactical marines. You’ll find a similar story with most other box sets. Sure the price increases in recent history may have been a little large for your wallet, but GW is making up for lost time and is still providing you a cheaper hobby relative to what they were 21 years ago. Please reference this tidbit any time somebody tries to argue about price hikes. and while we’re at it, don’t give me any bullshit about metal vs plastic in my comparison. I really don’t need to be chasing down commodities prices from 1990 to adjust for that shit to tell you at the hobby isn’t any more expensive than it was. . And it leads to this scenerio
Vets are generally older and are playing
Kids cant afford to get into the hobby as much since the costs rise, sure some can but the ratios slide.. ~listen, anybody can prove anything they want if their demographic and sales data are made up.
With less kids into the hobby, that less eventual vets.. the current vets play less.. kids.. family etc etc.. ~I for one play more as a vet than I did as a kid. I also have waaaaaaaaaay more shit now that I have my own income
The kids are the core of whats going on here.. rules be damned… codexes be damned.. ~you be damned…. ALL of that is gravy on the real problem. The hobby is becomming more and more expensive and its discouraging the new blood from joining and thusly growing the hobby.
I realize there are kids who can afford it.. they go mow lawns, their parents are rich etc etc… but those are a smaller sampling of the overall potential future player base. ~please drop some more made up science on us
The game is becomming something older guys play every now and then.
-GoW ~you are just doing this on purpose right? Doing everything I hate all in one fucking post….
Skragger- You’ve smashed it right on the head my friend! ~like using an entire fictional dump truck to hammer in a single nail. Fuck that one sounded better in my head too. This thread is rapidly sucking my brainpower That is perfectly right. One of the things I’ve discussed quite a bit with my GW rep is veteran vs new players. She states, and I agree, new gamers are the make and break of the business. A veteran will walk in and say “I need 1 drop pod for my army” drop $40 and walk out. A new player will roll in and say “I need an army” and drop a few hundred bucks. With the continuing price increase, getting those new, younger gamers is much more difficult.~it’s not the pricing, it’s the fucking competition. You try competing in a digital economy with an analog product. Plus you’re all still on crack about the kids issue. Yes kids are important, but not for their present worth. They are important for their lifetime value- the amount they’ll spend over their life. It’s not likely that many people are or have ever bought whole armies in one fell swoop. Yes it happens, and it probably happens a lot, but if I were to make up some numbers off the top of my head, I’d guess that the average revenue per transaction for a game store lies somewhere around $45-50 right now- indicating a trend towards purchasing 1 or 2 kits at a time.
Why would a kid drop $40 on one boxed set of 5-10 models, plus paints, glue, brushes, etc, when they can drop $4 on a new pack of magic cards? ~answer- because they can play video games. wait? seriously tough, GW’s competition isn’t really PP or WoTC and neither is the converse true. GW’s biggest competition is other facets of the entertainment industry- movies, video games, pornography, and other wholesome kids’ stuff
The starter sets aren’t nearly as good as they used to be either it seems, so saying ~”hey let’s give a few less miniatures, but make them great fucking quality and with more than a single pose. also, let’s not have cardboard rock lobbers and gryphons anymore. those are stupid.’ “well, we’ve got this cool boxed set that contains everything you and your friend need to play. As long as you like playing Marines and Orks, and you don’t mind splitting $100 cost for just the models and a puny rulebook and no “read dis first guide” like they used to. “
They need “army starter sets” cheap boxed set that have a HQ and maybe 1 troop choice, or maybe just 250 points worth of units that sells for maybe $40-$50, ~how is that more helpful than a $90 box with twice that- something that gets you damn close to having a playable army? comes with a mini rulebook. Plan it so they’re competative with eachother so Timmy and Johnny buy them they can a) get the armies they think are cool, and still have equal troops to get started and play fair. ~other than the utter futility of doing that, do you have any idea how much that would cost GW? Having to produce a starter set for every army with a rulebook? The warehousing costs alone would be astronomical, not to mention shipping them, giving up retail square footage to them, or paying for the packaging (which is often more expensive than the models, in actuality) Then if they don’t like the game they’re not down a years worth of allowance, and if they like the game, they’ve already got an almost legal army (just add 1 troop and you’re off to the races). __________________
im supriesd at taak.
i had a thought and a slight rant, now react as you will, contribute, post helpful insight, or just say my rant is ***: they all are good and it encourages thought and may cause people to think about the history of GW, taak was funny, claming to be a vet, whilst making obvious mistakes ( wulfen =/= mark of wulfen and lord solar marchius ~facepalm. It honestly just happened. ) as well as the fun insults. ~they were fun, weren’t they
it actually made me laugh some of the more fun quotes im in blu ~HOLY TAP DANCING CHRIST ON A POGO STICK!!!!! What the fuck is happening. Is there about to be a forum snow mobile? Fuzz, I take back some of the horrid things I’ve said about you. This is absofuckinglutely priceless. Imma even let you finish. You’ve got the rest of this FNIF. The floor is yours. This metahumor just got meta for meta.
So’s your face, but we can’t really discuss that here. ( wait has he seen me? do people stalk me cause i have a blog? or is he a regular stalker?)
TRANNIC VETERANS? I didn’t know there were transexual veterans in 40k. ahh my SCIImpaster sig is ‘hi im a bad speller: i may have to put that here too
I don’t know what Kirby you’re talking about COUGH head of GW COUGH
No idea if my swearing will be auto censored, but if not, man up and swear properly not hide behind a chunk of garbled symbols. If you’re gonna rage, rage in such a way that you get warned or banned, because hey, you suck *** otherwise (not that you don’t already). : yes i am ragin soo much look at all my anger, unlike you
HEY LETS TAKE 2 MINUTES TO RESPOND TO THIS LOAD OF HORSE **** BECAUSE YOU CAN’T BE ARSED ****ING SPELL CHECKING WHAT YOU ARE RANTING THE **** ABOUT AND SO PEOPLE WHO DON’T SPEAK ENGLISH AS THEIR PRIMARY LANGUAGE DON’T HAVE A CLUE WHAT YOU ARE GOING ON ABOUT OR YOU KNOW, *****ING AND GRIPING ABOUT THE FLUFF WHEN YOUC AN’T EVEN GET THAT THE **** RIGHT?!?>@!
IT’S MARCHARIUS, LORD SOLAR, TO BE PRECISE! yes lord solar marchius, youve finially named him: woah i cant spell a fictisious name, can someone direct this chap to the dune fourms
TYRANNIC WAR VETERANS, TO BE PRECISE, AND HEY THEY WERE REPLACED WITH STERNGUARD, WHICH WORK REALLY WELL WITH THE BACKGROUND ALREADY BUT HEY YOU IGNORED THAT AND ALL THE ASSOCIATED THINGS BECAUSE LOOK THEY CHANGED THE NAME!
yes but tyrannic war vets were Ultras only and were fairly un cookie cutter, itd be like replaceing sang guard with vanguards with stormbolters and power weapons
MARK OF THE WULFEN EXSIST SO TOO DO WULFEN, LEARN YOUR CODEX RULES AND BACKGROUND BEFORE RANTING TO PEOPLE WHO JUST READ THIS AND GO FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
mark of wulfen =/= wulfen
THIS PLACE AUTO-SPELL CHECKS, WHY THE **** DID YOU NOT USE THIS? MAYBE THEN PEOPLE WOULD HAVE BOTHERED READING MORE THEN JUST THE FIRST POST. no, see here swearing isnt manly, it is infact rather childish, i used to swear a LOT IRL and have been trying to cut down, being a positive influence is a good thing if you venture outside oh and i view fourms as a convorsation, you read the first post and then a few more
good to see some constructive criticism
*HELLO BIGRED, LAUGHED AT ANY WOMEN WHO MISCARRIAGED LATELY oh your nice, im sure you wont get banned, have you ever met bigred or me? if not dont insult us. thankyou
but thanks to this chaps constructive criticism i will spell check
( oh this is the 2nd creep who has attacked me on BOLS a few months back i had some person trying to ‘date’ me aka steal emails, personal information, pedo me (they were at least 20 yrs older than me))
oh and ghosts of war that was very helpful and interesting, ive not looked at it that way before!
and @ xanadu
is the swan/whale okay i like swans and whales
Who wins FNIF: Round 2.10?
Total Voters: 113