Back in the saddle
Maybe…..
Earlier today I was sat reading ‘this’ article on 40k for the new professional , Some of what he touches on there is relevant to my situation and general hobby malaise at the moment.
This is not so much an article as a stream of consciousness riffing on some similar feelings.
‘The hobby’ when is it not a hobby ? well for me that’s when it’s not fun ie work, a hobby by definition should bring pleasure in some form, so I want to talk about why I struggle with the hobby, especially 40k at the moment.
Not so long ago I essentially achieved what I thought was the possimpable, I completed a 40k army up to a fully painted 1750, admittedly there is some finishing out that could be done if I choose to, to achieve this I essentially had to sell out my entire life for 3-4 months every waking minute I could stomach painting I had to force myself to paint over and over again, I had help with the assembly, spraying and some of the base-coating too, it is a monstrous investment in time money and effort, that’s no hobby, I honestly felt like I was working two jobs. But that’s what it takes to get an army done in anything approaching a reasonable time frame.
I have about as much again, if not more left to do to have all the DE I own/want to own painted, I honestly cant face it, Army painting is not and never has been fun for me, sitting slumped in a chair for hours at a time that essentially vanish into the void is not my idea of fun/enjoyment, I do that at work already ….. nope, honestly I feel painting is a torture and it is something I only endure as I find an unpainted army about as aesthetically pleasing as a brick covered in slime, there is also a feeling you owe it to your opponents who have often endured the same torture to provide you with a more visually interesting game. The quicker we invent a machine I can program with my color scheme, load with mini’s and come back later to a painted squad/vehicle the better.
The subject of time is important here, I’m an adult (mostly) and I have an hour commute to work either way , I’m out of the house for 11 hours of the day and sleep for 7-8 otherwise I can’t cope with the mind numbing drudgerous monotony/mediocrity of my day to day grind at the salt-pits
If we knock of the hour in the morning getting sorted for work that leaves 5 hours spare a day, however I have to go shopping, attempt something which can pass for a social life /girlfriend, do exercise, household chores /RL stuff, cook/eat and facilitate any other interests in that time, iIncluding writing off one entire evening to run the club and actually play some games.
Weekends too are interesting, you can write off at least most of one day playing catchup from the week etc, Saturday night is often social or for gaming, it’s not often I’ll be able to make time for painting. So Sundays then ? well yeah, that’s pretty much it and often other stuff comes up, realistically on average I think maybe 8 hours a week is about what we are looking at , IF I ‘want’ to paint, which as we have discussed I don’t ….almost ever.
My army took well over 200 hours to sort to its current stage and it will take 200 more to ‘finish’ all the 3-4k , assuming I actually manage my 8 hour weekly average it would take me an entire year of consistent painting to do it… one army ….
Thinking about it I love the concept/design aspect of painting and doing a few test models is a pleasure and even taking that palette scheme and applying it to other types of models in that army but with some variation is again satisfying, this means I actually only enjoyed painting maybe 6-8 models in my entire DE army, woo wer’e partying now ! beyond that its just monotonous drudgerous grind (note the correlation with RL job)
So from a time perspective 40k seems like it is only a suitable hobby for well to do unemployed people with servants and a masochistic back pain fetish with no need for other stimulation….
That’s just the ‘hobby’ aspect of the game lets talk about the game and the other aspects which are ultimately involved.
I have played a-lot of 40k in the last two years, it’s safe to say it had come to dominate my life, if I was not playing it I was writing about it , reading about it doing something involved with it…. It’s taken a while for it to sink in that generally I do not enjoy the game of 40k…
Yeah, go figure… strangely it’s intangible and a variety of factors that make this so. I am comfortable saying that I am good at 40k, none of this has anything to do with success, if that was the one requirement for this hobby to be fulfilling I should and would be happy.
Often as not I get more stressed out and annoyed when I am winning, that means the majority of my games, I was happy enough with my DE, I kinda still am, as long as I continue to pretend GK don’t exist and am never forced to play them, it’ s driven me a bit mad that book, more so than any other book I can think of in my gaming history, I never played warhammer that much and kinda missed out playing against the deamon book that ‘broke’ warhammer so this is my first taste of something like that, books have come and gone that contained some questionable stuff/pointing but we move on and in the main cope with it , IG are a classic example and can be a tough game for DE, but GK I can’t let go of, can’t put it to bed and move on, I’m like a man with an ulcer he can’t stop tonguing…..
When people who can’t or have struggled to beat you with other armies for years suddenly brutally white wash you there is a problem, literally the only games I have lost or drawn in recent memory involved GK and are my worst losses in a very long time.
I’m out of competitive 40k until 6th now (depending) I have resigned from the 40k GT, I simply don’t see it as worth the effort/stress
Hmm, this really lacks any coherency, I’m not satisfied with the game not at all, it’s not fun, maybe that’s my choice of army, but repeatedly failing to pop any kind of armour in a mechanized edition I have built for wears thin, it’s honestly no surprise the DE stick to Commoragh and only raid civvies in the fluff , their primary (only ?) AT guns are dire and overcosted.
Fortunately I like the guys I play with and the way my army looks so I’m not knocking it on the head, just taking a big step back and treating it much more casually, I’ll be interested to see what 6th means for my DE and this blog…
A lot of this has been bought up as I have started to pick up and play Infinity recently and It throws 40k into stark contrast. The game is intuitive with 90% of the rules making sense, as far as I know and can tell all the factions are about as close to balanced with one another as it gets in a wargame, things function and feel how they are described in the fluff and the startup cost is a fraction of a 40k army and even I can paint up a reasonable ‘full sized force’ in a couple of weeks (not half a year), which means I can realistically think about owning and adding to several forces even with my limited spare time.
I don’t need to spam , I will never have to paint more than maybe five of the same model again, due to the way the lists and game is , I’m not trying to find optimal units and min maxing infact in my limited experience it looks like spammy min maxed lists are at disadvantage here, I’m seeing the appeal of periodically changing up things in a given list to see how they work and to keep things interesting. Even more so I will now never have to wait more than a couple of months for something new or interesting for my chosen armies/race. I also feel it important to add, this is not as a neckbeard but as a qualified craftsman that I dislike finecrap, Infinitys alloy is wonderful stuff and I don’t resent coughing up for it, to be fair on a model by model basis it’s largly cheaper than finecrap and I have yet to see so much as a minor miscast or airbubble I particularly love how strong and stiff the fine weapons and blades are. Floppycast weapons set my teeth on edge, that alone is a dealbreaker for me.
I thought GW’s asking price was too much anyway, I won’t be buying anymore (Failcast), lol ,think about the cost of a full sized Beastmaster squad at the moment, when that gets the Fin£ca$t treatment it will be a single unit ‘worth’ as much as some entire armies, I love the models, I have wanted a unit for about a year now I can ’afford’ them they are simply not worth that much money and I doubt I would be comfortable paying half the asking price for a single unit which is sad as it’s the one unit I’ll need to truly complete the Invidious Requiem.
Will I continue to run Rant ? yes, for now, I’ll even get some actual articles up over Crimbo, It would be nice to maybe complete the reviews and hit some summaries, I’ll be looking to expand and expound on Infinity too, though as this is primarily a blog for faildar I will do Infinity ‘feature’ articles here and there unless I can find a better home for it. There wont be much to post beyond DE painting and maybe the odd vid bat rep, I suppose I can have a good write up of Doom of Mymeria, will have to get into gear when 6th comes out as knowing what it means for DE is going to be fundamental, I also anticipate the new Eldar book with eagerness, perhaps my Mechdar will be back? Conversely I am finding writing articles to be quite time consuming so I am considering doing some Shard TV,
Will I finish the Invidious Requiem ? I would like to, wether I can stomach that much painting is another matter entirely, there are still some units that have not seen any paint, Hellions have been asked for repeatedly by you lot , I also have scourges a Court a Reaper and a Tantalus to bring yet more variety to the show, who knows maybe I’ll hit the Tantalus over Crimbo too. There is still the snagging list from the first 1750 to address but it can wait.
Usual humor service will resume shortly. Behold Jewdacris, courtesy of Lorenzen
‘…honestly I feel painting is a torture…’
Were they sentient, I would imagine that your DE would find that to be a delicious irony.
Mate they were positively soaked in pain by the time I hit Throne…
masochistic back pain fetish – can definitely agree on that one. Try working as a modelmaker and doing 40k as a hobby. I’m not sure why I do it sometimes.
I really enjoy reading your articles/rants. I certainly see where you are coming from. Your DE army is a wonderful acheivement though. It’s one of the best executed armies out there.
I’ve never even played 5th ed because of the local ‘win or nothing’ attitude. I’ve been playing 2nd ed which has been great fun. I recently got into Battlefleet Gothic and Adeptus Titanicus too and found then easy to learn and don’t require many models. They capture the atmosphere I love so much about the 40k universe far better than 40k itself. There are certainly other options like Infinity as you have mentioned.
Gothic made me really happy when I got back into it last year, we had some great games, I have a 2k eldar fleet all painted, it took less than a month,
I have spent more time playing with it than painting it and Gothic is damn fine game. I doubt I will ever be able to spend as much time playing with my DE as they took to put together etc.
Your comments on Infinity are mirroring my feelings lately after starting to play Flames of War. The rules are much more clearly written, the factions are balanced, the average price for a tourney army is about half (or less) of 40K, and when I finally get around to painting my Germans it should only take a week or two for the *entire* army. Not the 3+ years it’s taken me to paint up the IG army I just sold.
I think dissatisfaction with Games Workshop is the first stage, like a primer if you will. What really pulls people into other systems is the quality that you find there, the prices you find there and the miniatures. Infinity has been around for a while as had Flames of War, but I expect I think both have reached a tipping point in the 40k sphere because the typical 40k player can now find a game with another system almost as easily as he or she can find a game of 40k. I know at my local club it’s easier to find a game of Infinity or WarmaHordes than it is 40k.
Yet everyone there started with Warhammer or Warhammer 40,000. I’ve not met anyone who began the hobby with PP or CB.
I totally get where you’re coming from: it was a couple years ago that I took my big step back from 40k after realising no one I gamed with played “just for fun anymore” –oh they played casually…or rather they casually played their tournament lists trying to see how else to optimize the lists; it’s like every game was a practice game for a tournament (which wouldn’t bother me SO much…if when we played those games, there was actually an upcoming tournament).
Part of my problem is that I’ve been playing the game FOREVER (since about ’88 or ’89) and all my initial gaming in 40k had nothing to do with tournaments (I think the first real tournaments happened in my area sometime around1998-2001 …so I played the game for a DECADE before tournament-style competitiveness reared its ugly head–prior to that, game imbalances were just that: imbalances and they didn’t matter as much as they tend to now).
Even though I’ve embarked into several other games–all of which seem to highlight the weaknesses inherent in GW’s games–I can’t seem to walk away (just yet); I’ve found the best way to feel like I’m still having “my olde-timey-style” of fun with the game is, believe it or not, by organising and running narrative style tournaments (though I’m on a bit of a hiatus right now).
I’m still very excited about 40k…up until I play it and then I’m angry at how the game, just through the disparities between all the codices, fails at being fun. I have a friend who’s theory is that GW is just satisfying all the 12-year old with codices that won’t put their ‘tween self-esteem at risk –with the side effect that the rules are turning all the adults who play into 12-year olds (at least on an emotional level).
Like you, I’m waiting for 6th Edition; fifth saw me too busy to play; the few games I did play merely highlighted just how 3rd-4th Ed my Eldar army is / was (but hey! it was only my sparse leisure time I was wasting!) I saw enough 5th ed at tournaments etc to see what I didn’t like. Here’s hoping 6th doesn’t just perpetuate what we already have in fifth.
Blah–here’s me ranting. Sorry I’m all over the place; I really liked what you had to say and felt inspired to leave this (long) reply. I should probably try to rein that in. Good post–and I really liked the ‘Chapters of the Astartes’ poster!
Woo , big response.
Im a competitive player, but I suppose that is part of my frustration, the system is bad and the codex’s are NOT balanced.
hence the need to step off and treat 40k differently now or my head is going to burst.
people who cannot see that are clearly in denial.
I agree, I’m still really enthusiastic about 40k right up to maybe half hour in…
Also I must point out a few people I know who are a bit jaded with 40k seem to be taking the narrative route to keep the hobby alive, these are usually competive types too…
I dearly want my Eldar to be up to date , it’s a travesty that they have become the whipping boy of 40k, they used to be badass, Imperials used to rightly fear them, GW has failed miserably to make eldar or DE feel more technologically advanced than humanity.
That about sums it up. Based on the stupid random crap in the last 3 codices, I can see where 40K is headed. Not towards cleaner rules, better service, and more competitiveness, but towards more randomness and frustration.
So I’m stepping back. I’ve sold my competitive army and will only be playing my “fun” army until 6th comes out. If I can get any games, that is. 40K does not have nearly the player base in my area that it used to. There are still tournaments, but casual play has fallen off a cliff. What a difference a year makes!
Well you hit the nail on the head.
I have so much stuff to paint myself and with work and exams haven’t done anything in like a month.
I paint alot faster but with terrible quality compared to you Shard, but it really does become agony.
I think this is because you need too many models in an army. Ideally a 1000 or 1250 point list would be the perfect hobbyists point IMO, thats maybe 30-40 infantry and a few tanks if you really squeeze your list with most 3+ armies. Plus cool stuff (MC’s etc).
I’ve found airbrushing all my base colours and even the basic lighting/wash effects means I could probably build 1000 points of DE in a week if I really went for it, and was on holiday (ie nothing else to do at all).
The problem is I don’t want to. I also don’t want to give up because of the investment in this hobby…. I could have bought a small car (NEW!) with the last 5-6 years spending money….
Game balance is beyond poor, army support even worse, the entire ruleset is just sad and scares more people than it attracts, and the scaling up of army list sizes is making matters worse. While all the other gaming companies improve GWS moves downhill in all areas except the design of the newer models (generally).
The enormous amount of models required also plays back into the whole marine supremacy issue. They are basically the lowest model count armies that can spam vehicles (which are easy to make look reasonable).
Plus half the time an unpainted marine army is more pleasing on the eye than a painted one…..
Giving up means GWS win though 🙁
I think it would actually be cool if someone could build a skirmish ruleset for 40k with 1000 points as the baseline.
It would reduce alot of the army balance issues.
Yeah the lack of support is shocking, really bad
what support we get often ivides as much as it solves ….
No giving up mean GW loose, quite literally your hobby spend.
I’m pretty sure I would have spent much more on GW the last couple of years if various things had not been an issue.
“Giving up means GWS win though”
No, giving up means they lose and you win. GW will only care about 40K’s problems if their sales fall significantly. For that to happen, people need to stop buying their half-assed crap.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-does-it-mean-to-throw-good-money-after-bad.htm
If you’re not satisfied, don’t buy. You can still play and not buy anything new. Or you can sell your stuff and hurt their sales at the same time that you’re making some spare cash. 🙂
Well I can concur with and fully understand your position Mat. I hit that wall years ago and had the ‘why the fuck am I doing this moment?’. I was sitting there slowly painting some dwarfs and this French Algerian friend/work colleague phoned me up. The conversation went like this…
‘What you up to Jody?’
‘Oh man I painting my Dwarf still, got to get these thunderers done man’
‘You still painting those?’
‘Yep, I know it’s been months’
‘I’ve got this new game you interested in giving it a blast sometime?’
‘Yeah, but it depends how many mini’s will I need’
‘About 10 to 15 max’
‘Bullshit, those sorts of games died in the late 90’s. Seriously what will I need’
‘Dude your way to suspicious, honestly 10 to 15, however, you’ll want more when you see them’
‘OK what’s it called? I’ll look it up on the net’
‘It’s called Infinity. It’s Spanish and uses D20’s. I think you’ll like it’
‘OK got it… hang on… WTF is that big robot called’
‘depends which one, they’re all called TAGs’
‘There’s more than 1?’
‘Yeah there’s loads of stuff’
‘Do you have two forces Al?
‘Jody. Of course I have two forces! You want me to pick you up?’
‘Yeah, fuck painting Dwarfs’
‘I’ll be there in 10 minutes’
‘Hang on 10 minutes?’
‘Yeah well I was in Birmingham and well, erm… I kinda knew you’d want to see them’
‘I see’
Haven’t really heading back into the GW hobby since. I rediscovered my love for painting and I’ve remembered that I used to play way more than just GW games. Will I get 6th and try to play it? Yeah of course I will. Thing is if it’s shit GW won’t be seeing me again as there is way better product out there now, that fits better with my life and what I want my hobby to be.
This, this is something which should worry Games Workshop.
They’ve got us all in their hands. I love grim dark. It’s the best, they don’t need to win me over, they just need to keep me. So far, CB is winning…
Good point GDMNW, the universe and models are great, they are keeping the hobby alive.
The other aspects are pitiful….
You say that ,but generally I am starting to find some of the new stuff OTT and just a little tasteless, that does not go for everything, sure it’s very well executed but it is much like the studio paint schemes these days, bright, clashing and lairy and for my tastes just a little too much most of the time, a small thing perhaps but it does make things less appealing.
Though I similarly find the corvus belli stuff a bit bright and retina itching. I’ll get to painting some stuff soon to give a contrast.
Yea to be honest I don’t look to GWS for paint schemes, they are generally boring, unimaginative and while I can’t say they aren’t well done, they just don’t get me back into painting, unlike alot of the independent work and conversions I see.
I’ve seen the tomb kings stuff, and even ogre kingdoms, and most recently necrons and been quite impressed with the design of some of the stuff, although I’ll grant you that the whole necron vehicle thing is definately OTT. But thats how they design codexes, for sales…….
I’ve actually been thinking I would create a seer council Eldar list just because the conversions would be fun, just to field Eldar again. Thats how desperate I am 😛
I haz a converted seer council, never quite got around to painting it as I was getting bored with my Wavespam around the same time, tis a shame footcouncil is so much worse than bikes.
CB is Bi winning, I saw a JSA TAG next to some GW dreads the other day, the proportioning and quality difference was stark, even the FW dreads looked crude lumpy and poorly designed by comparison, and it comes in a material I really dig ? $OLD
Spray Can…
Eh whut ? Lol please expand …..please ?
I’m somewhat at the same place as you right now.
I’ve finished a first 1750 army upt o a standard that I really like, and at the same time I really don’t like to paint whole armies. The first couple of models are really fun, but then it’s downhill from there.
I like having a nice army and I like it to be able to compete against all other armies out there, both in the game and in the painting competitions.
And the army really just doesn’t cut it against psyflemens…
So I’ve found a new start in playing Warmachine instead, and the last time I felt burned out/bored like this I found Confrontation and had a break for a couple of years.
I think you should fully embrace Infinity and see where it takes you.
Hopefully you’ll come back to the fluff of 40k, because in truth, it’s about the only thing it has going for it…
And glad to see you posting again.
Cheers.
Yeah, I intend to address my thoughts on DE when I finish the reviews, ultimately I think they are a poorly designed book, especially when you consider the broader game and more recent books.
Like you I only want a fair shot at being able to compete, but GK > DE my mate who can’t beat me with his usual stuff and he’s pretty good (took best GK player at throne) just easy modes my DE with GK, he barely ‘took part’ ….
Even crons are a kick in the balls as far as I can tell, I played a game vs them yesterday and he simply auto deletes my vehicles with tesla etc, I won but only by playing the mission, generally I was getting torn apart, could not keep anything alive and was struggling to effectively kill stuff (as usual)
*sigh* once again you insult your book without taking in the bigger picture.. are grey knights and a lot of the other crap insulting to your every senses? the answer is a resounding yes.
but the dark eldar book, along with the space wolf book are two of the best written and generally most fun books to write lists from. got options? you bet! got non named characters you’d like to take? more so than named ones!
newcrons, gay knights and the various other abortions of late should been seen as sticking an epileptic kid in a rave.. ie wrong and not in good taste.. to claim that a well written book is poorly designed because the writer didnt go “im better than you cuz my dad said so!!” and have a tantrum like ward seems to is just wrong..
also you smell of poo.