NEW FORGEWORLD STUFF !!!!!!! Forgeworld have released some sexeh new eldar toys on the run up to IA 11 , seriously the models are sweet, go see.
However I am not a happy bunny , Given their recent penchant for giving things super rules (Caestus/Achilles) I was expecting a solid showing for the new Edar stuff , should have learnt by now really,Gw Xeno ? yup the rules are weak.
The spectres will do a nice job as a long range anti tank shot (singular) but they are 35 points each and are t3 5++ ……. so shite then really , they will be lucky to survive long enough to shoot a single tank. someone blithered about cover and jet packs, wake up asshat , 5 t3 models with a 4+ cover save @ 35 points each , how fast can you kill that ? even at range ? think about it man !!! the gun is not even ap1 even fully linked up so their one full str shot of the game still has a 66% chance of doing feck all , now lets talk cover ….
Tlos is not their friend.
The Warphunter made me jizz in my pants (Model) However the rules are even poorer , this actually pushed me over the edge and have sent an email to forgeworld detailing my concerns.
It has a really cool warp rift mode , which tbh will make it a kamikaze vehicle , it is like what banewolves and hellhounds want to be when they grow up. you willl get insta deaded with melta for using it ….so Its not going to force out my usual fire prisms/falcon.
The really crap bit is that the MASSIVE gun looks like it should do something of a magnatude somewhere between the support wep and the Scorpion Gonne , its EXACTLY the same as the shitty D cannon in our fossil codex with an increase to range , so its going to miss all the time and people will mostly just take cover saves , it also blows as reliable AT also. Shame as that model deserves to be feared.
These are experimental non approved rules currently , hopefully FW will fix it to be a scary ass cannon like it is in Apoc , marines get a raider with TL multi meltas , immune to lance/melta av 14 -1 on the chart thunderfire trolly and we get 6″ extra range on a crap gun ? give me strength.
Is IA11 going to be all about Imperials beating up on Eldar ? I bloody hope not. Seriously if you care and wanted something Decent out of what is likely to be the only Eldar FW support for a very long time, send em an Email, please, couple of people on the forums already have , Eldar unite !!
I just caught up on the Shadow Spectres and Warp Hunter rules and have to agree with you regarding the Spectres.Though awesome minis, their rules are less than desirable. Give me 3 War Walkers every time.Now at first I thought the Warp Hunter was pretty cool, and I'm still on the fence about it but it seems to me that the Fire Prism is still a better choice.They're both relatively costed the same yet the Prism has almost double the range. I think the only thing the Hunter has over the Prism is the fact that it can shoot like a hellhound and it's AP2. Now that's some scary shit right there!
its melta bait , and by taking it you will dilute your already limited ability to open stuff at range , unless you can open stuff and get close its useless, I believe a hellhound even has a better range ?Sorry to be miserable but I have been really looking forward to IA11 , was even delayed so they could spam MoAr marine shite and now it looks like Eldar are the sideshow faction in IA11 so the glorious imperials have something to shoot at again ….
The only way I can see the Shadow Spectres working is if you keep them behind LoS blocking terrain (and it will be hard since they are very high up with those bases), pop one guy out to throw a shot with the ghostlight and then hide him again in the assault phase. You could give them the Exarch with Cynosomething to make that one shot twin linked but it's 22 points on top of everything. So if you get 4 of them plus the Exarch with that power you are paying 162 points for a 48'' range TL S10 AP2 Lance shot. I think it all boils down to if you will be playing in any boards with decent LoS blocking terrain.Nevertheless the models are fantastic!
actually kind of like the tank rules. IG would kill to have the banewolf get a 6" shot. Pretty much the same points, plus it's a fast skimmer. yes please. add in the ability to still take a decent ranged shot, and I think you're getting an ok value for 125 points.
Nah it's not even an ok shot, when it's not missing it's bouncing from your cover saves whilst only being able to reliably glance even the thinnest armour. Im just getting the feeling Eldar players have been numbed by years of crappy overpriced rules and are happy even just to have scraps served up, you are entitled to every bit as much crazy shit as the imperial releases, these rules should be better !
I too dislike the rules – pretty much the same reasons as you, as I detailed on 3++ and BoLS. I will be sending an email to forgeworld too. It's such a shame that we're getting spoonfed with shite like the Nightspinner and these guys – even if the models are pornographically gorgeous.
yeah , this is actually serious , its like GW dont know there is a problem with the Eldar stuff,judging from the DE book, dark lances will remain over priced for ever , plords will suck , exarchs will do very little for far too many points all of the 'special' and technological shit will have overcomplicated smoke and mirrors rules to hide the fact they are a bit shite and harlequins will stay Exactly the same ,pointless jester and all….. I mean, fuck, do you even think to compare it to the imperial things you spam out , then think of it in the context of super advanced older race tech …..Seriously *facepalm
Even i have to agree the rules are a a tad weak and i normally support FW to the ends of the earth. The Shadow Spectres rules wise are fine and fill a nice hole in Aspect Design its the points that get men 23-28pts anywhere in that scale and id be happy bearing in mind these guys should always be getting a 4+ cover with there bonucing around tricks. AP1 would be nice on the combined shot but not essential.The Warp Hunter is in theory awesome the range i can accept and i like the barrage option and the template mode is amazing. The small blast is what makes it suck. Add another 20-30 points on it and make it a large blast and ill be happy.
Hey Boom, been a while, I wanted badly to like these rules as I want the models , but after it sunk in i got a bit peeved….. toughness three with a 4+ cover is still shite , consider that each kill will reduce the 'effectiveness' . some kinda etherial veil of tears type rule is in order as is AP 1 , shove them in fast attack too for the love of god.The hunters warp rift is a two edged sword , Id be happy with a bigger template and +1 on the D-chart (glances on 2's penetrates on 4's) , will still miss alot …..Still Forgeworld listened on the Caestus so there is hope :o)
Yeah the Achillies and Caestus are now to many points for what they do (Eldar Syndrome you may say) but im convinced Shadow Spectres should stay in HS as those who want to do an Aspect only army only have Dark Reapers in there where FA have Shinning Spears, Swooping Hawks and Warp Spiders. So in balance i dont mind and yes there soft but the terrain you play on is more of the problem than there stats.Maybe make the Warp Hunter Bs4 like to Fire Prism. If that happend and it got a large blast id pay for 150 points for it easy before upgrades.I also think both units are so unique compared to the other units in the list that they really need playtesting before there written off and i have no doubt that they will end up better in final print due to all the bitching about the rules that seems to be going on.
Ima Get a Warphunter regardless , the model is great and the price is reasonable for FW .Will see on the rules , Im going to hold off on pre ordering IA11 though , I want to see it or at least know whats going on in there before I spend that kind of money on a book that 'could' transpire to be a crushing disappointment.Inching through the mechdar , will have to get a game at some point.
been out of the gaming scene for a long time now, just getting back into painting again. currently working on new shadow specters, waiting for exarch and pheonix lord. eldar always had crap rules, most advanced civilisation in the universe yet the don’t even have a weapon that can destroy a whole world. great models though.
what is IA11?
IA11, Its the upcoming Imperial Armour book from Forgeworld , it was actually due out already but they decided they really really needed a whole entire 2nd marine tome of epic size far more than something to diversify the IA range so we got pushed back.
There is a phantom Titan on the way too, though with current track record it could be put on ice whilst the rush out another Reaver variant or maybe a warlord….
The rules are pootacular atm, not pre ordering IA 11 now , going to wait to see if all the eldar stuff is ass, no point getting it otherwise……
welcome back to the hobby, Eldar are a fantastic painting challenge, Im really looking forward to doing my DE eventually
Thanks for the welcome, and the info. Is it just me or is FW taking over the world?
Thank god, people feeling the same way I am about the Shadow Spectre rules. The models are SO beautiful….and the rules are a pitiful wet glop of afterbirth. If anyone would like to see the rant that I sent FW about it, let me know. Everyone PLEASE write them, they need to hear from us!
And yeah, Sorrowshard, it’s like we’re numb. Why don’t we deserve a Vendetta or Achilles-caliber vehicle?
Lol, I’d like to see it actually , I wonder if it is much like the letter I sent to FW…….
Eldar should have stuff far in advance of achilles and and vendetta’s , they just can’t for ‘game balance’ ……..
Hah! Cool. Prepare for a massive rant:
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[Dear Forge World],
As a dedicated Eldar player who was thrilled to see you release a new type
of Eldar Aspect Warrior, and as an admirer of your work who is astonished
at the beauty of the Shadow Spectre sculpts (they really are beautiful and
rich with character), I have to register my disappointment with the
experimental rules.
First, the good: you’re clearly looking at the Eldar list and identifying
the gaps, then trying to fill them. I see this with the Hornet, too –
Vypers would serve a useful role in the Codex, but they’re terrible, so
you made a Vyper that’s actually good.* Hooray!
Eldar are lacking a full set of anti-tank options. Sure, they have Bright
Lances, but at S8 and without a plus to the damage table, they can’t
consistently pop tanks the way lascannons or melta can. Plus they’re
normally carried by BS3 models. Then yes, you’ve got Fire Dragons, but
they’re fragile and slow, unless you put them in a Wave Serpent or Falcon,
but those are way overpriced and have only rear hatches, which hose the
ability of the Dragons to drop within 6″ of a target. The best options,
which I often run, are the Avatar’s wailing doom, Wraithguard, and
Wraithlords in close combat…all three of which have very short range,
but are durable enough to (sometimes) get across the battlefield to their
target.
(Oh, and there’s two Fire Prisms combining beams (S10 rerollable small
blast is great at taking out tanks)…but at 230 points, that’s super
pricey (and once one goes down or they start getting stunned, you’re in
trouble).)
So that’s the gap you were trying to fill, which is great.
Also, you made the rules for them *very* Eldar. Tricky, flexible,
possessed of multiple shooting options, skilled, good at running away,
requiring tactical thought – awesome!
But then, sadly…it just doesn’t add up.
Let’s look at the pitfalls:
First, they’re a heavy support choice. That’s the most crowded slot in the
Codex, and as quick-moving infantry, they could certainly be Elites or
Fast Attack.
Second, the Ghostlight is an *awesome* idea, and clearly the point of the
unit…but three troopers firing together just creates…a Bright Lance.
You need five firing together, or four one of which is an Exarch with a
Prism Lance, to get the real prize: a S10 Lance shot. The Haywire Launcher
is fantastic, but if you go that route then you can’t use the Prism Lance
to get to S10 with only four troopers.
Third, they’re fragile. Couldn’t they at least have a 3+ save, like Warp
Spiders, who also leap around? (speaking of, since they have only a 4+,
didn’t you mean to make them Fleet of Foot?) Fragility is the Eldar way,
so I couldn’t complain about it were it not for the next point…
They’re just way way WAY too points-costly. Let’s compare:
they cost exactly as much as a Wraithguard, which at 12″ range has a MUCH
better gun, a better save, S5 and T6, and can potentially be a Troops
choice. In exchange, Shadow Spectres can jump 6″ in the movement phase,
have a 5++, and can Ghostlight. Ok…
now let’s look at Fire Dragons. For LESS THAN HALF the points of Shadow
Spectres, Fire Dragons have exactly the same stat line, and at 12″ have a
MUCH MUCH better gun. Ok, they can’t leap or 5++ or Ghostlight, but this
is starting to stack against the Shadow Spectres.
what if I wanted to use Shadow Spectres at 12″, not Ghostlighting, but
targeting heavy infantry, leaping forward and back? Well, for 2/3s of the
points I could get a Warp Spider, which moves much further, has a better
save, also has hit and run, and whose gun shoots twice (albeit with no AP).
most relevant, let’s look at other heavy support choices. In my Eldar
army, I field a Wraithlord with a Wraithsword and Bright Lance for 140
points. If I replaced him with Shadow Spectres, what would I get? Well,
for 127 points I could field three, one of which is upgraded to an Exarch
with a Prism Lance. That allows me to Ghostlight one S9 lance shot each
turn that hits on 3+. That’s coming out of a squad of three T3 models with
a 4+ save, no close combat prowess…essentially origami waiting to be
torn apart the first time anything targets them. And when they start
taking damage, their effectiveness drops since their Ghostlight is no
longer S9.
Or I could keep my Wraithlord, which shoots a S8 Brightlance which hits on
3+, not to mention the two flamers. And is MUCH harder to kill, at T8 with
a 3+. AND which doesn’t lose effectiveness as it takes wounds. AND which
is also a beast in close combat.
Why on *earth* would I buy Shadow Spectres?
They’re so close to being awesome, but just don’t add up. Perhaps make
them 16 points and an Elite choice, like the other Aspect Warriors? Or
perhaps the Prism Rifle starts at S8, so a Ghostlight gets to 10 with
three models, and they’re perhaps 22 points? And/or the Prism rifle is
AP1, to help on the damage chart? You have the right idea, the concepts
and special rules and upgrades are right, it’s just not EFFECTIVE.
I hope this doesn’t come off as hapless ranting, and that you can use it
to adjust the rules at some future point, perhaps if they get released by
mainstream GW?
If you made it this far, thank you for reading! Y’all produce amazing
products, and we’re all grateful.
Waiting for a new codex,
Alexander Cotton
San Francisco, CA
* – The Hornet! So beautiful! So needed! Only one thing: you’ve given it a
bunch of long range weaponry, but then an automatic upgrade of Star
Engines…why does it need to zoom across the battlefield? Why not give it
an automatic Holofield instead? Or, why not make one of the weapon options
a simple fusion gun, for a low cost? A couple Hornets star engining across
the table, threatening to move within 6″ of enemy armor with four fusion
guns would be a cheap powerful tactical superstar. Even cooler, why not
allow the Hornet to field two weapons OR one weapon and carry five models?
I’d pay 75 points for a 36″ delivery mechanism for five Aspect Warriors or
a Seer Council.
As it is, they’re more of a replacement for War Walkers. More expensive,
in exchange for 1 better armor, and, if necessary, a speedy rush across
the table (perhaps to contest an objective). I’d buy them, but they’re not
Vendetta-caliber awesome.
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